Trump & Musk

[Mups]

Just seen this, this morning.
So much for Trumps 'Peace talks!'



"Russia launched one of its biggest drone attacks on Ukraine,  as its and America's top diplomats were sitting down for peace talks in Saudi Arabia to end  war.
The Ukrainian military said on Tuesday that Russia used 176 drones for an overnight attack.
Ukraine's air force reportedly shot down 103 of the drones and 67 did not reach their targets, probably due to electronic countermeasures.

[klondike]

The demands of the Russians and Ukrainians are completely incompatible. Ukraine wants all their invaded and annexed  territory back and Russia wants to keep all that plus get their own invaded territory back.

Whatever Trump comes up with will not be acceptable to either party. Ukraine apparently has enough in the way of promises and stockpiles to keep going all this year and the Russian economy is on its knees. Ukraine have no reason other than to make a short term saving of lives to do anything but continue. Short term saving of lives because if Russia is not actually defeated they will kick off again once they have rearmed.

[JBR]

Once this war is over, whether due to peace talks or Russia finally running out of equipment or men (or men of another country!), Ukraine would be well advised to apply to join NATO, just as Finland and Sweden have had the good sense to do.
Putin would have the sense not to attack NATO, as that would result in war which could escalate into a nuclear exchange.

[klondike]

Trump has ruled Ukraine joining NATO out. Presumably he expects Russia to have another go too and doesn't want the risk or expense.

[JBR]

Trump has ruled Ukraine joining NATO out. Presumably he expects Russia to have another go too and doesn't want the risk or expense.

I hope not.  Although Putin is losing materials and people regularly, without help from the West Ukraine would not last for long despite their certain bravery.

At the same time, without help from countries like North Korea, Putin would also be in a bit of trouble.

Again, I say that Ukraine should have joined NATO when they had a chance.

[Alex]

I also read Putin has ruled out Ukraine joining NATO, can't remember where it was now but it stuck in my mind.

[Mups]

The demands of the Russians and Ukrainians are completely incompatible. Ukraine wants all their invaded and annexed  territory back and Russia wants to keep all that plus get their own invaded territory back.

Whatever Trump comes up with will not be acceptable to either party. Ukraine apparently has enough in the way of promises and stockpiles to keep going all this year and the Russian economy is on its knees. Ukraine have no reason other than to make a short term saving of lives to do anything but continue. Short term saving of lives because if Russia is not actually defeated they will kick off again once they have rearmed.

What really scares me is,  if China or that evil bloke in S.Korea decide to wade in and help Russia bring it to a speedy end.

[klondike]

Again, I say that Ukraine should have joined NATO when they had a chance.

I'm not sure that they ever had a chance. Certainly they were ruled out from 2014 on when Russia took Crimea. NATO rules forbid any state with a border conflict from joining.

February 18, 2025, 06:35:58 PM

What really scares me is,  if China or that evil bloke in S.Korea decide to wade in and help Russia bring it to a speedy end.

China won't help Russia. They are standing by to grab the pieces for themselves when the Russian economy finally completely crashes.

North Korea has been completely isolated ever since the Korean civil war ended in the 1950s. Their huge army may be able to wear silly hats along with several pounds of medals and march around in ways that would make John Cleese green with envy but are going to be useless facing a modern army. Which is why they have been pulled back from the front lines. Possibly Putin is hoping they can be used to look after the donkeys which Russia have resorted to after huge numbers of their trucks have been destroyed and possibly fuel is getting low since the 17 Ukrainian drone strikes on Russian oil refineries and storage facilities so far in 2025.

[Mups]

Why is Trump suddenly publicly bad-mouthing Zelenskyy at every opportunity, I wonder?
He is deliberately causing more trouble.

Is he trying to get in Putin's good books?

[klondike]

Alex started another thread on that. I put my best guess in that one because I saw it first.

https://letschat.club/index.php?msg=135300

[Mups]

Alex started another thread on that. I put my best guess in that one because I saw it first.

https://letschat.club/index.php?msg=135300

Oh, ok.  Sorry.

[Mups]

Just seen that Stephen King has waded in the affray over Trumps really nasty comments about Zelenskyy now.


King says . . .  "Trump is a traitorous, Putin loving dips***.      Goes double for Musk."


Oh heavens,  where will all this end.   
What's the matter with Trump and his side-kick?  They are deliberately breeding hatred,  but why?

[Mups]

Oh No.   Just read this now:

*

A member of the European Parliament has claimed that Donald Trump has given Europe three weeks to sign Ukraine's "surrender."

Earlier this week, the United States and Russia began peace negotiations in Saudi Arabia without inviting Ukraine to the table.

As the conflict approaches its fourth year, Donald Trump is eager to reach a peace agreement quickly and is pressuring Ukraine to accept a deal negotiated without its involvement—an unthinkable option for Zelenskyy."

*

I think all Trump is achieving is more and more people supporting Zelenskyy for the way he is being treated.    Putin must be laughing his socks off.

[JBR]

Oh No.  Just read this now:

*

A member of the European Parliament has claimed that Donald Trump has given Europe three weeks to sign Ukraine's "surrender."

Earlier this week, the United States and Russia began peace negotiations in Saudi Arabia without inviting Ukraine to the table.

As the conflict approaches its fourth year, Donald Trump is eager to reach a peace agreement quickly and is pressuring Ukraine to accept a deal negotiated without its involvement—an unthinkable option for Zelenskyy."

*

I think all Trump is achieving is more and more people supporting Zelenskyy for the way he is being treated.    Putin must be laughing his socks off.

That is very interesting... and worrying.

An alliance between Trump and Putin = America and Russia, makes me wonder why?
Is Trump afraid of Putin?  Are both Trump and Putin afraid of China?
If it is something like that, it sounds like Ukraine might be considered small fish by the two.

I wonder, if Trump and Putin form some sort of alliance, where does that leave us (and Europe), as NATO would probably cease to exist?  Would those two come to some agreement on dividing up and sharing the whole of Europe, and us of course?
Or, due to the third-world invasion of us and much of Europe, perhaps both Trump and Putin might think that in a few years we won't be worth even thinking about.

I hope I'm worrying unnecessarily.

[Mups]

I agree with you JBR,  I do not like the way this is going at all.

Trump, Putin, and Musk all agreeing   . . . .  fishy indeed.

Can't  imagine what Zalenskyy must be feeling.