Electric car batteries

[JBR]

If you prefer it, how about coal-fired cars?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWxgp0LT6kQ&ab_channel=BBCArchive

[dextrous63]

To dump something into the sun you have to negate the earth's orbital velocity. That's 30km/s which is way way over escape velocity.

I get that.

Still, we'd still be able to dump unwanted stuff into space.  Who cares where it goes?

[Cassandra]

I find that very interesting, and and apparently viable alternative to EVs and possibly traditional engines.
35 miles to a gallon of water sounds attractive, as water is virtually free at the moment, but to extract Hydrogen from water requires a great deal of energy, and presumably electricity.
Do you have any further information please?

Two links here JB, I once met an English professor of engineering in Tokyo in 1978. He spent his long Summer university breaks as a 'Don' in Japan, running young teams of development engineers for Toyota. He said how they'd constructed an experimental engine from a concept blueprint, through to a functioning protoype in two days! He hadn't slept throughout this period so returned to his hotel exhausted. He'd advised these young people that the engine would probably implode at around 9,000 revs. However he'd said upon retiring, "go ahead test it to destruction". Returning about ten hours later, his team had rebuilt the collapsed experiment and reconstituted a completely perfect replacement. He did the same thing with Honda for motor cycle engines. Sadly the Japanese could provide him with the facilities and the budgets to fulfill his visionary perceptions.

https://www.topspeed.com/toyotas-hydrogen-combustion-engine-has-the-potential-to-make-evs-obsolete/

https://myelectricsparks.com/toyota-presents-the-first-water-engine-2500-oc-and-dual-injection-to-outperform-hydrogen/

[klondike]

Don't we overcome the orbital velocity when we sent satellites to other planets or beyond?

No. They all orbit the sun too and at varying speeds but they play a sort of planetary ping pong using the various planets gravities to speed up or slow down the spacecraft as needed to enter orbits or swing out to the next planet.

If you want to drop something into the sun which is in the centre of the system you have to have very little speed relative to it or you will just end up in orbit around it.

A spacecraft got within a few million miles of the sun last Christmas.

From ChatGPT which shows just how long it took to get there using planetary ping pong.....


The Parker Solar Probe, a NASA spacecraft, recently made its closest approach to the Sun on December 24, 2024. It flew within 3.8 million miles (6.1 million kilometers) of the solar surface, a record-breaking proximity. During this flyby, the probe entered the Sun's corona, its outer atmosphere, traveling at a speed of 430,000 miles per hour. This mission aims to study the solar corona's extreme temperatures, uncover the origins of the solar wind, and explore how particles are accelerated to near-light speeds【7】【8】【9】.

This approach marks another milestone for the Parker Solar Probe, which launched in 2018 and has used Venus flybys to gradually bring its orbit closer to the Sun【9】.


Yesterday at 07:39:09 PM

I get that.

Still, we'd still be able to dump unwanted stuff into space.  Who cares where it goes?

Those planning future spaceflights would.  There is already so much junk in orbit that they are wondering how to clean the place up so that there aren't big problems later.

Or did you mean put it in some random orbit that might result in it all coming back here at a few hundred thousand kph and forming a radioactive meteor to wipe out future populations.

[JBR]

Thank you Cass.
The second link explained things well and suitably simply.

Obviously I was already aware that hydrogen can ignite easily, but wasn't sure how water was  easily converted into hydrogen (and oxygen).  The important bit was the conversion which, I see from the article was performed relatively simply by maintaining the cylinder at a very high temperature, presumably enough to split water into its two component gases.

It sounded unbelievably difficult to me, but it seems that they have managed to accomplish it.
Water can be, depending on where you are, very cheap which is a very attractive alternative.
The question I still need to understand is how to maintain the very high temperatures to convert water to its two component parts.

I had assumed that this might have to be done with electricity but, if I understand correctly, once the engine is running hot the cylinder head remains sufficiently hot for the method to continue to work.
I can only assume that in order to start the engine, a powerful electrical current must be applied to heat up the cylinder heads to a very high temperature.

That is the procedure I don't fully understand.  I assume that a very big battery would be required to provide that enormous heat before the engine can be started.

Of course, presumably Toyota must have overcome that problem.

Thanks again.


Yesterday at 07:59:59 PM

No. They all orbit the sun too and at varying speeds but they play a sort of planetary ping pong using the various planets gravities to speed up or slow down the spacecraft as needed to enter orbits or swing out to the next planet.

If you want to drop something into the sun which is in the centre of the system you have to have very little speed relative to it or you will just end up in orbit around it.

Ah, that I understand.  Thank you.

[klondike]

By my reading the fuel used is hydrogen. The water gets injected along with the hydrogen.

utilizing hydrogen produced at the Fukushima Hydrogen Energy Research Field, the company aims to promote hydrogen infrastructure and contribute to the economic recovery and revitalization of the Tohoku region

The first law of thermodynamics rules out any possibility of the engines only power being produced from the hydrogen its surplus heat splits out from water. The second law dictates that you have to put in more energy splitting water than you can extract by recombining it. Calling it a water engine is a misnomer. It's a hydrogen powered engine that seems to be using water to control the reaction in some way.

[dextrous63]

Yesterday at 07:39:09 PMThose planning future spaceflights would.  There is already so much junk in orbit that they are wondering how to clean the place up so that there aren't big problems later.

Or did you mean put it in some random orbit that might result in it all coming back here at a few hundred thousand kph and forming a radioactive meteor to wipe out future populations.

I mean sending it to infinity, and beyond, and deffo not in close proximity to us.

Yesterday at 10:51:45 PM

By my reading the fuel used is hydrogen. The water gets injected along with the hydrogen.

utilizing hydrogen produced at the Fukushima Hydrogen Energy Research Field, the company aims to promote hydrogen infrastructure and contribute to the economic recovery and revitalization of the Tohoku region

The first law of thermodynamics rules out any possibility of the engines only power being produced from the hydrogen its surplus heat splits out from water. The second law dictates that you have to put in more energy splitting water than you can extract by recombining it. Calling it a water engine is a misnomer. It's a hydrogen powered engine that seems to be using water to control the reaction in some way.

Not sure, but my guess is that the hydrogen is somehow burnt to create huge amount of heat which vaporises the water and it is this superheated steam which recreates the action of combustion, hence why they seems to adopting a variant of a V8 engine design.

In effect, it's like the Flying Scotsman.🤣🤣🤣

[klondike]

Maybe. There is no actual explanation of how it works. Almost certainly because it's a news story not a technical piece. Whoever wrote it appears to have been completely confused by whatever explanation they were given. Anyway hot water is steam isn't it so why not call it a steam engine - especially if it works as you've suggested. I don't even know what temperature is needed to break down the water molecule but expect that it is very very high.

I asked you know what and it said 2-3000C I'm guessing the range is given because it varies on pressure.

That is similar to the combustion temperature of a diesel engine and a little higher than petrol. Also from you know where.

I recall what was likely a scam product that claimed to improve either power or fuel economy (I forget which) by squirting a little water into the carburettor. Maybe it wasn't a total scam.

[dextrous63]

No idea either.  The explanation of how it works is somewhat scant, but it refers to 2500-3000 degrees IIRC.  Not sure if they're breaking down water molecules or using hydrogen as a separate fuel to added in the equivalent of a carburettor.

Maybe I'll ask at my Toyota dealership when I take my Aygo in for a service😬😬