Electric car batteries

[Mups]

I have just been reading about this:

It is already known that EV batteries can auto-ignite, causing the vehicle to catch fire.
Apparently there is also a massive problem with battery recycling, too.
The article says:

"Recycling is necessary because the metals needed to make new EV batteries are scarce,  and to achieve the amount of EV's required to supplant internal combustion engine vehicles, there are simply not the resources available on earth.

Salvage facilities currently do not know what to do with EV batteries. 
The problem is, they are not made to be recycled.  Tesla's Model 3, for example, is said to require the whole upper body to be removed from its chassis to access bolts that then need a special tool unique to the manufacturer.

But the real issue is chemical: EV batteries are complex modules with internal layers bound together with hazardous fluorinated glue.  This makes dismantling both dangerous and difficult."



I am not the slightest bit interested in ever having an EV car,  but I wonder how many people out of those who flock to be the first to have something new,  gave the battery any thought?
I also wonder how they will dispose of these cars and batteries if they end up in a breakers yard?

[klondike]

I also wonder how they will dispose of these cars and batteries if they end up in a breakers yard?

Whoever gets left holding the thing is going to have to pay for disposal because scrap dealers aren't going to take them for nothing and the changcs are it will need specialists.

That end of life won't be the pretty common these days 20 years+ either. Nobody is going to want a 10 year old EV with the potential cost ot a replacement battery or disposal costs hanging over it. You can safely buy just about any old car with a decent MOT these days knowing that if it should get a major problem you can just weigh it in with the local scrappy either at zero cost or maybe even for a bit of cash. In the days when I only ever bought such vehicles the rule set by my local scrappy was you get £10 if you drive it in  or they would collect it free.

Nothing has been thought out with EVs or more widely the Net Zero project. We've just had stories about blackouts being narrowly avoided. What plans are in place to boost the grid to support all these EVs and heat pumps and what backuppower source is planned for periods such as we have now which crop up just about every year?

[Mups]

Whoever gets left holding the thing is going to have to pay for disposal because scrap dealers aren't going to take them for nothing and the changcs are it will need specialists.

That end of life won't be the pretty common these days 20 years+ either. Nobody is going to want a 10 year old EV with the potential cost ot a replacement battery or disposal costs hanging over it. You can safely buy just about any old car with a decent MOT these days knowing that if it should get a major problem you can just weigh it in with the local scrappy either at zero cost or maybe even for a bit of cash. In the days when I only ever bought such vehicles the rule set by my local scrappy was you get £10 if you drive it in  or they would collect it free.

Nothing has been thought out with EVs or more widely the Net Zero project. We've just had stories about blackouts being narrowly avoided. What plans are in place to boost the grid to support all these EVs and heat pumps and what backuppower source is planned for periods such as we have now which crop up just about every year?

Yep.  I totally agree.    Only earlier this week there was a warning about possible power cuts because of this extreme cold weather,  so what's the solution?  . . . .  make more electric cars!   Crazy.

[Cassandra]

Just like the bacon sandwich munching messianic nut zero zealot E Miilipede, the words 'Amortisation & Salvage' is something that is never mentioned these days. In any purchase surely you consider, what does it cost and how long will it last? I always also take into account the 'Pay back Period' That is if you pay say £100 for something and it's saving you 25 quid a year, it's 4 years till your in front. Amortisation is therefore either writing off the item over that 4 years, or alternatively it may have a salvage value of say £25 at the end. 'Red Ed' never says what any any of these values are for his stoopid windmills! Do you know how long these hideous bird murdering contraptions will last before they need replacing and at what cost all in? I'll bet he has no idea at all, because like all idealists he has no pragmatism! The EV scam is going to break car companies and ruin a lot of lives in this mindless rush towards supposedly 'saving the planet'. Our 'supposed' contribution is currently, they profess a single percentage point. Lord Sieff (Marks & Spencer) once told me "The Price of Perfection is sometimes too high, young man".

Of course he was right. The idiot who is forcing ruin on all of us big time needs to grow up and acknowledge the words of one from his religion, who didn't quaff 'Bacon' sarnies in quite such a revolting way ...

[klondike]

Don't just blame Red Ed - the current ZEV mandate which will lead to manufacturers pulling out from the UK market and the bankruptcy of many car dealers was put into law by the Tories.

Admittedly the unachievable 2035 deadline which the Tories changed the 2030 deadline to was reinstated at 2030 by Labour but neither can possibly be achieved anyway.

The claimed operational lifetime of a wind turbine is 20 to 25 years but just how accurate that is I can't say. The blades are composites such as carbon fibre or fibreglass and I doubt there is anything reusable from that so it will be more a case of disposal than recycling. The metal bits should be recyclable I imagine.

[Mups]

Don't just blame Red Ed - the current ZEV mandate which will lead to manufacturers pulling out from the UK market and the bankruptcy of many car dealers was put into law by the Tories.

Admittedly the unachievable 2035 deadline which the Tories changed the 2030 deadline to was reinstated at 2030 by Labour but neither can possibly be achieved anyway.

The claimed operational lifetime of a wind turbine is 20 to 25 years but just how accurate that is I can't say. The blades are composites such as carbon fibre or fibreglass and I doubt there is anything reusable from that so it will be more a case of disposal than recycling. The metal bits should be recyclable I imagine.

I found something about this - 

Steel holds the blades in place as they turn.
The generator is 65% steel and 35% copper
The tower is 90% steel
The foundation is made from steel and re-inforced concrete.

Global steel production is dependendent on COAL.
70% of steel is made from COAL.
1 MW of wind turbine capacity requires 220 of COAL.

Steel is made through a process of mixing iron ore with coking coal.
Is all this what we call  'Green Energy?'

Oh,  one more thing. Apparently the government want to put 8.5 million tonnes of carbon dioxide under the sea,  but the oceans already  hold at least 50 times as much CO2 as the atmosphere.

Most of this is a bit beyond me,  but it may interest some with a better brain.

[JBR]

Absolutely true.
In their naive attempts to cut the use of coal and oil, the trendy 'nett zero brigade' are actually doing exactly the opposite of what they claim.
Still, it will go on until, eventually, down-to-earth people will be able to undo all the damage done by these idiots... possibly.
In the meantime this country, which once led the world in science and engineering, will have become another third-world nation incapable of producing - and affording - all the good things we presently enjoy.
I shall not be here, thankfully, but I do feel sorry for our young people, many of whom are blissfully unaware of what is really happening.

[dextrous63]

I think they ought to reopen some mines, if only to dump the ecar batteries in.

[Cassandra]

Don't just blame Red Ed - the current ZEV mandate which will lead to manufacturers pulling out from the UK market and the bankruptcy of many car dealers was put into law by the Tories.

Admittedly the unachievable 2035 deadline which the Tories changed the 2030 deadline to was reinstated at 2030 by Labour but neither can possibly be achieved anyway.

The claimed operational lifetime of a wind turbine is 20 to 25 years but just how accurate that is I can't say. The blades are composites such as carbon fibre or fibreglass and I doubt there is anything reusable from that so it will be more a case of disposal than recycling. The metal bits should be recyclable I imagine.

Mrs 'Bonker' Boris Carrie's just as much blame as her loose trousered husband. But as you point out it's Red Ed who dragged us back to 2030 from 2035 fo total nut-zero oblivion. Apparently in the past few weeks, the 2035 deadline switch to 'Heat Pumps' has now been 'extended beyond 2035' by the new GB Energy Dept. That was quiet wasn't it! The current parlous state of the UK Economy means 5% interest is now payable to the Chinese to buy our long term gilts.

The UK severally needs them to pick up our IOU's on one hand and provide credit for gobbling up their windmills and solar panel crap on the other (the real reason Reeves went to Beijing with both her sick and begging bowls). In this way, Millipede's crazy woke idealsim gets financed (off sheet) keeping his sick image whole and careens the people towards a crucible of never ending debt and subordination to the Zhonghua minzu!

[klondike]

The charging network won't be ready.
The grid won't be ready.
Most people  won't have sufficient funds to buy disposable vehicles that have sky high insurance costs and insufficient range for anything beyond local use.

It can't happen unless millions can no longer own personal transport. Perhaps that is the real aim.

[Ashy]

As far as I know there is only one company in Britain that recycles batteries. I don't know whether they can do EV batteries. Whoever dispatches them would have to remove them from the vehicle.

It appears that people who don't take any responsibility for their decisions and are rich enough to avoid the consequences of them will sign anything.

[dextrous63]

I wonder what the actual solution to the energy issue will be, since the current half arsed plan of windmills and battery cars most certainly isn't.

[klondike]

Using fossil fuels while nuclear plants are built. I fear that fusion will be a pipe dream for decades to come.

Synthetic fuels for cars. It has to be something that is stored at low cost and the vehicle refuelled quickly. That means it has the be a liquid or gas liquified. Batteries don't cut it and small nuclear is nowhere in sight,

[Ashy]

I know, let's make everything electric, then we just plug them in.

[JBR]

I know, let's make everything electric, then we just plug them in.

Excellent!  You've hit on the answer.
EVs with very long charging cables, along with charging points alongside every motorway.
No, don't dismiss my bright idea.
Plug in and you can drive for a couple of hundred yards.  Stop on the hard shoulder, unplug, run along for four hundred yards and plug into the next charging point.  Then drive on for another couple of hundred yards.
I can see our wonderful government coming up with something similar to that.