How I'm getting 25 years of WFA in one

[klondike]

I decided to look around for what grants I could get when they stole my WFA.

Most of course are means tested but the green ones currently aren't or at least not as strictly.
I'm probably stuffed on insulation grants as my loft is already feet deep in the stuff to comply with planning regs when I had the roof retiled.
I have solid walls and haven't yet found somebody who does external insulation through the grant system and I'd probably still have to pay something and never get that back in savings.

Then I found that there is £7,500 up for grabs for heat pumps which I should qualify for.

The main things putting me off in the past is marginal cost savings for a big outlay  but that grant brings the cost way down although there is almost no chance that I'll recoup it on fuel cost savings and finding space for a cylinder may mean sacrificing some in either kitchen or the already smallest bedroom as I see no simple route for the pipes using what was a cylinder cupboard years ago but maybe they will.

So have I lost my marbles? Why do it?

Well we know that their Net Zero policies will eventually see the end of gas boilers. Mine is now 14 years old and may well not see me out plus I hope my daughter will be able to take the house on. The EV tax breaks are evaporating and once heat pumps take on or are the only option I expect that grant will go too. I also see manipulation of gas prices being used to push people over to heat pumps in pursuit of their virtue signallng nonsense.

£200 refundable deposit paid to Octopus and survey booked for 14th. I'm hoping they can do it for the ~ £3,000 from me they say they can based on property details I've given them. I'd likely have to shell that out to replace the current boiler at some point anyway.

[muddy]

Heat pumps are noisy and don t make a house warm .

[Ashy]

Heat pumps are noisy and don t make a house warm .

That's what I've heard too, so I hope it won't be the case for Klondy.

[Cassandra]

I've had heat pumps for years with Air Con. The Inverter unit, which is outside also pumps heat (warm air) and is really effective. However they only cost £5/600 installed each? Most British homes could make do on three 1.5kw units, all of which are individually remote controlled. Of course you have the wonderful benefit of full air con in the summer too. Not sure how you'd get hot water? Perhaps a quooker tap would provide the kitchen. Ideally a good old fashioned 'immersion' heater is the real answer, but I expect the stunningly brilliant Energy Minister (ED 'bacon sarnie' Millipede) wouldn't allow that. Apparently this barmcake was all set to tear out Gas Boilers 'forcibly' by court order. However other, more subtle con-artists inside the nuthouse that is now 10 Downing street, favour a 'nudge tax' tax of £150 a year on 'Boilers' instead. How do they expect people to be able to afford £15k for these ridiculous implements? A. you get a grant for £7,500 owards the cost - oh wow! 

So there you are a nett charge of only £7,500, when a new gas boiler is about £3k fitted and far more efficient. Proprietary lunacy - even in the Deep Democratic States of NY or Califonia they'd never attempt that hypocrisy!

How do they expect ordinary people to pay this amidst all the other green crappery and punitive cuts they're making to pay Train drivers over £80k a year - just plain nuts!

[klondike]

The way I look at it is that they won't be diverted and we will all eventually have to have them. My boiler is getting of an age as am I and I don't want to have it curl up its toes and need replacing when I am older and greyer and gas boilers are no longer available and the £7,500 grant has gone the way of zero road tax and free congestion zones which is happening for EVs.

The survey is essentially a heat loss survey where they calculate heat loss for every room and what radiators with the low flow temperatures heat pumps have to operate at for efficiency are needed. It will warm the home. Possibly better than it is now considering I've turned off most of the rads and turned the thermostat down (not to Phil's preferred level though).

Noise levels for heat pumps are published and must be below fixed limits at any nearby window. Being a bit mutton I doubt it will bother me anyway.

The quoted installation cost which covers any needed radiator upgrades after the grant is taken is just north of £3k which I'd have to pay to get a new gas boiler fitted anyway.

They may say no or I may change my mind and get the deposit returned right up to install day.

I will say that without Starmer stealing my £200 I wouldn't have investigated and HMG would be £7,300 better off this year if I do have one fitted.

Now to get down to seeing who will do the external insulation and sort the grant out for that too.

[muddy]

I have an oil fied boiler.
There is no mains gas in the countryside.

[klondike]

When the grid goes down with all the EVs and heat pumps there won't be any electric either....

[muddy]

I also have a wood burner .

[klondike]

We'll all be sitting around those in our caves.

[Cassandra]

The way I look at it is that they won't be diverted and we will all eventually have to have them. My boiler is getting of an age as am I and I don't want to have it curl up its toes and need replacing when I am older and greyer and gas boilers are no longer available and the £7,500 grant has gone the way of zero road tax and free congestion zones which is happening for EVs.

The survey is essentially a heat loss survey where they calculate heat loss for every room and what radiators with the low flow temperatures heat pumps have to operate at for efficiency are needed. It will warm the home. Possibly better than it is now considering I've turned off most of the rads and turned the thermostat down (not to Phil's preferred level though).

Noise levels for heat pumps are published and must be below fixed limits at any nearby window. Being a bit mutton I doubt it will bother me anyway.

The quoted installation cost which covers any needed radiator upgrades after the grant is taken is just north of £3k which I'd have to pay to get a new gas boiler fitted anyway.

They may say no or I may change my mind and get the deposit returned right up to install day.

I will say that without Starmer stealing my £200 I wouldn't have investigated and HMG would be £7,300 better off this year if I do have one fitted.

Now to get down to seeing who will do the external insulation and sort the grant out for that too.

But is the grant a one off and done? For instance if you sell your house say three years in from taking a heat pump grant, what figure is due (if any) for repayment of said grant? Is it 'personal liability' or does the new deeds owner inherit the outstanding debt of the 'endowmment', i.e. the property owes the debt as a registered charge.

As I see it 'Red Ed' will have to persuade madam Chancellor to 'amortise' the £7,500 over say a five year period, in order to keep the grant on the UK balance sheet, as an ongoing asset to borrow or print money against. Therefore sell your house (or buy one) with a grant registered for a heat pump installation you could be liable for £4.5k after 3 years declining to rest after 5 years. Being Labour they'll probably make it a ten year figure. After all they don't put any replacement cost figures (amortisation) into 'their' mathematics on Windmills!

The whole issue is far too 'rangy' yet to take a retional pragmatic decision upon, same as the wretched cars. They make it up as they go along ...

[Alex]

My boiler is knocking on too, about 10 years I think but my radiators are rubbish, all single panel and at least 40 years old.  I was thinking if having new radiators put in as this house is really cold.  I contacted the fella who put the boiler in and he's retired, but he's given me a couple of names for people who could do the work.

No way will I be getting a Heat Pump, simply can't afford it grant or not.   I hope this lot are kicked out and new Government will wake up and ditch this 'green crappery'       Love that Cass !

[JBR]

My boiler is knocking on too, about 10 years I think but my radiators are rubbish, all single panel and at least 40 years old.  I was thinking if having new radiators put in as this house is really cold.  I contacted the fella who put the boiler in and he's retired, but he's given me a couple of names for people who could do the work.

No way will I be getting a Heat Pump, simply can't afford it grant or not.  I hope this lot are kicked out and new Government will wake up and ditch this 'green crappery'      Love that Cass !

Heat pump?  Absolutely no way.  Expensive to buy and to instal, and grossly inefficient with it.

No, our boiler is only a few years old and will probably see me out.  Not sure about Marge, though.  😢

[klondike]

The grant is just that. Money off when you get a heat pump installed that meets their criteria. It was brought in in April 2022 at £5,000 but unsurprisingly didn't attract the target uptake so was bumped to £7,500 announced in September 2023 and effective 23rd October 2023. Predates the loony Green Ed.

There is good reason I don't expect these grants to continue. I can't be sure how many houses there are but Google tells me there are around 25 millon "dwellings" so for sake of argument I'll probably underestimate that as 10 million houses small enough to qualify for the grant. 10 million times £7,500 comes to £7.5 billion. I can't see them wanting to pay that out so like the EV freebies it will stop well before everyone claims it. If there is insufficient take up I think they will be manipulating gas prices to try to force the issue rather than increasing it again.

Without that grant they certainly are expensive. With it mine is less than it would cost for a new boiler and radiators which are pretty much certain to be required for the install.

[Cassandra]

The grant is just that. Money off when you get a heat pump installed that meets their criteria. It was brought in in April 2022 at £5,000 but unsurprisingly didn't attract the target uptake so was bumped to £7,500 announced in September 2023 and effective 23rd October 2023. Predates the loony Green Ed.

There is good reason I don't expect these grants to continue. I can't be sure how many houses there are but Google tells me there are around 25 millon "dwellings" so for sake of argument I'll probably underestimate that as 10 million houses small enough to qualify for the grant. 10 million times £7,500 comes to £7.5 billion. I can't see them wanting to pay that out so like the EV freebies it will stop well before everyone claims it. If there is insufficient take up I think they will be manipulating gas prices to try to force the issue rather than increasing it again.

Without that grant they certainly are expensive. With it mine is less than it would cost for a new boiler and radiators which are pretty much certain to be required for the install.

So it was a bit of 'Boris Bonkery' ~ fascinating. I reckon however that as long as they can count it as an asset (depreciable loan) they can present the 'grants' on the plus side, so the more the better in getting us to nut-zero faster and faster. This allows Red Ed to get the presses primed up at the Treasury to run off a few zillions as far as he's concerened. Billions are nothing to this squwiffbrained berk. For example killing off frozen Pensioners is a far higher investment than the £1.4 bn it initially saves within the fiscal year. Shorter to medium term it also rids you of Pensions altogether and any other unnecessary expenese like coucil tax refunds etc associated with these 'useless eaters' ~ 'quod erat demonstrandum'

[klondike]

Yes I already wondered if it may not be their actual intent to kill off pensioners. They'll certainly get a few this coming winter by their own estimates.