a 15 year old accused of knifing a 9 year ols to death

[JBR]

I'm afraid I can't view any graphs from the above posts, perhaps because I don't have the appropriate Microsoft software now.  However, going by those supplied figures, they substantiate the graph I have up until the early 2000s.  Anyone would think that some people are trying to hide the increases.

For this reason, I maintain that if we were to bring back hanging for murder, if proved beyond doubt, the numbers would begin to cease because I believe that hanging was an effective deterrent.

[klondike]

There's one in that pdf the AI pointed to and I added. It got embedded and is too small for me to read - I should have listened to mum but young lads never do. Anyway you can download it but the one I saw only gives numbers per year and the population has shot up as we all know. I'm guessing the AI figurs come from the spreadsheet and are probably accurate.



per million in there too...

[JBR]

There's one in that pdf the AI pointed to and I added. It got embedded and is too small for me to read - I should have listened to mum but young lads never do. Anyway you can download it but the one I saw only gives numbers per year and the population has shot up as we all know. I'm guessing the AI figurs come from the spreadsheet and are probably accurate.

There's one in that pdf the AI pointed to and I added. It got embedded and is too small for me to read - I should have listened to mum but young lads never do. Anyway you can download it but the one I saw only gives numbers per year and the population has shot up as we all know. I'm guessing the AI figurs come from the spreadsheet and are probably accurate.

There's one in that pdf the AI pointed to and I added. It got embedded and is too small for me to read - I should have listened to mum but young lads never do. Anyway you can download it but the one I saw only gives numbers per year and the population has shot up as we all know. I'm guessing the AI figurs come from the spreadsheet and are probably accurate.

Hahaha!
When I clicked to respond, the very graph that I have seen before appeared - three times! - here above my response, though it didn't show beneath your post.  I'm not sure it will actually post, though.  We shall see.
It's almost as if some authorities somewhere don't want anyone to actually see it!

[klondike]

The rate per million looks a lot different from the the plain number showing just how much the population has swollen.

Yesterday at 03:38:10 PM

though it didn't show beneath your post.

That's because I added it when I screen printed the pdf and uploaded it to postimage. There's the per million graph added too now. Not sure why you quoted me three times.

[Dextrous63]

Anyway, bottom line is that the overall trend is that the rate is increasing.  Sure there was the Harold Shipman spike followed by a curious lull.

Which kinda goes against the claim that  hanging doesn't act as a deterrent.

I'd quite like to see the repeat offending stats for those who got hung compared to those that didn't 😉😬

I'd also like to see the cost of hanging versus the cost of lengthy incarceration.

[klondike]

It's increasing but I wonder if that isn't down to a lot of black on black violence in cities.

TBH I'm not convinced of the deterrent value. The jihadi crowd don't care, the dim crowd think they'll never be caught and the pissed, drugged, psychopaths, seeing red etc,  types that account for lots of murders basically don't think at all. It's only the thinkers that would be deterred and I reckon they are a minority..

The problem I have are the miscarriages of justice which are far too high. Posthumous pardons and apologies don't really cut it.

It's certainly cheaper though. So long as they get the rope from Lidl not B&Q

[Dextrous63]

Given that there are times in which there really is no doubt of guilt (cctv being a somewhat obvious one), then applying it in those cases kinda eliminates any miscarriage of justice.

'Owt is better than n'owt.

[klondike]

So a no doubt conviction? Trouble they are all supposed to be no doubt convictions. If you raise the bar and demand certain types of evidence it will let some escape justice. 

Makes no difference what either of us think though. It must be 50 years or more since capital punishment was removed and no government since has considered reinstating it.

[Dextrous63]

I know.  Pity really.  If the Southport nutter had been put to the rope, then it'd have saved us a fortune and the hapless prison guard wouldn't have been attack.

But, as you say, it ain't going to happen, despite the trend suggesting it may have had a deterrent effect.

[klondike]

There's a phrase that covers that. I think you said you teach maths surely you have heard that correlation does not always indicate causation.

[Dextrous63]

Indeed it doesn't, which is why I covered my arse with the word "may". 😉

[JBR]

Not sure why you quoted me three times.

You tell me!  I certainly didn't do it intentionally.  It was either my computer or your web page!

Yesterday at 09:10:08 PM

I'd also like to see the cost of hanging versus the cost of lengthy incarceration.

Indeed.  

[klondike]

You tell me!  I certainly didn't do it intentionally.  It was either my computer or your web page!

Yesterday at 09:10:08 PMIndeed. 

Never seen it before. Must have been rope bounce or something 

[Mups]

Unfortunately killing by youngsters is regularly in the news..
 The most recent one that sticks in my mind is the two (kids) who stabbed an old man walking his dog in a park near his home.. The poor man and his poor confused pet..

They are evil and should be given a fatal injection..
I don't believe any amount of (chat) sessions can penetrate and change their wicked minds..
Yet they are so crafty they can make their (experienced )
medical team believe that they are changed and love the bible..

Yes, I remember the poor man walking his dog in the park  who got stabbed,  awful, wasn't it.

Earlier this year there was a 13 year old girl in the next town to me,  who stabbed and murdered a woman.

Is all this evil in kids coming from what they watch on the internet, do you think? 

[klondike]

It comes from zero discipline at home and school. That doesn't mean whalloping them necessarily. Mine didn't get whalloped but they still knew right from wrong and on the whole were either pretty well behaved or clever enough to not get caught. Probably the latter. I was a little sod. I did refrain from stabbing too many people though.