Nineteen thousand !!!

[JBR]

The trouble is that a conviction is already supposed to be beyond reasonable doubt and people are still found later to have been wrongly convicted - sometimes on a technicality but also on incontrovertible evidence that turns up later.

I agree.  There have been cases in the past where a person hanged for murder having been later found to have been not guilty.  I see that as a fault of the courts system, where doubt of guilt must still have existed but the jury and the judge have decided that any doubt cannot have existed.

One way of overcoming this could be a verdict of guilt and a decision to prosecute initially be commuted to life imprisonment, but on the grounds that if future evidence were to arise to either confirm or deny the original verdict, either release and compensation, or 'hanging by the neck until dead' be applied.

The convict would probably have spent the following years in prison either realising and accepting his true guilt or desperately hoping for it to be disproved.

[klondike]

The American system can keep them on death row for decades to the enrichment of the legal profession.

I'd agree with it for terrorist offences. It's no deterrent in those cases though as the silly sods seek martyrdom. In fact there are many heat of the moment crimes or emotional crimes that wouldn't be deterred and most of the killings done by criminals probably wouldn't either as they think they won't get caught.

July 24, 2025, 12:42:34 PM
The relationship between murder rates and the death penalty in U.S. states is a long-studied topic, and data consistently shows that states with the death penalty tend to have higher murder rates than those without it.
Here's a summary based on FBI Uniform Crime Reporting data and state death penalty status (as of recent years):
🔴 States WITH the Death Penalty

• Average Murder Rate (2023 est.): ~6.0 per 100,000 people
• Examples (2023 est.):
  
  • Louisiana: 14.1
  • Mississippi: 13.0
  • Alabama: 9.4
  • South Carolina: 8.4
  • Texas: 7.0

🟢 States WITHOUT the Death Penalty

• Average Murder Rate (2023 est.): ~4.2 per 100,000 people
• Examples (2023 est.):
  
  • Massachusetts: 1.8
  • Rhode Island: 2.0
  • New York: 3.9
  • Minnesota: 2.4
  • Washington: 4.5

📊 Comparison Summary:

[th]Death Penalty Status[/th]
[th]Average Murder Rate[/th]
[th]Higher Rates?[/th]
With~6.0 per 100k✅ YesWithout~4.2 per 100k❌ Lower

🔍 Why Might This Be?

• Death penalty is not shown to deter crime effectively.
• States with the death penalty often have higher poverty, gun ownership, and systemic inequality—all correlated with higher homicide rates.
• Abolitionist states often have better-funded justice systems and stronger social programs.

Would you like a full state-by-state table of murder rates with death penalty status?

[JBR]

Thankyou Klon.
Regarding the death penalty, I have a couple of suggestions for its acceptance:

Although it can be argued that many murderers would not be deterred by the consequence of their actions being death to themselves, they would certainly never manage to kill again if they were put to death!

It would be interesting to see whether, if those states which have the death penalty and decide to remove it, the murder rate would or would not increase.
Similarly, although murder rates in those states without the death penalty are relatively low, if they decided to impose it, would the murder rate reduce further?

I think that I'd argue that the murder rate in any location depends entirely upon the sort of people who live there.  I tend to agree with the second of your 'why might this be' suggestions.

[klondike]

Americans are possibly a bad choice but they are the only country in the western world I know for sure still uses the death penalty. Their murder rate (looked up yesterday when I grabbed that lot) is seven times ours. It seems some there think they live in the Hollywood version of the wild west. That ludicrous 50 cal exploding ammo rifle I mentioned in the joke section as home defence for instance. Use the full mag from that and there wouldn't be much home left to defend. 

[JBR]

Americans are possibly a bad choice but they are the only country in the western world I know for sure still uses the death penalty. Their murder rate (looked up yesterday when I grabbed that lot) is seven times ours. It seems some there think they live in the Hollywood version of the wild west. That ludicrous 50 cal exploding ammo rifle I mentioned in the joke section as home defence for instance. Use the full mag from that and there wouldn't be much home left to defend.

I've just had a look.  Japan and Singapore both still have the death penalty.  Not in the Western world though, of course.