Sue the Government ?

Started by Alex, January 10, 2022, 02:31:08 PM

« previous - next »

Alex

In the last 12 months, there have been quite a few crimes committed by people who have no legal right to be here.  The latest in the news was Ablolom Okbazge 26 of the Britannia Hotel, Almond Brook Road, Standish.  He appeared before borough justices charged with the serious sexual assault of a woman on Saturday December 18 in Wigan town centre.   My question is would this young woman, and others like her, be able to sue Priti Patel, or Border Force or the UK Government  ? for failure to protect British citizens - of all colours !   This is just the tip of a very large iceberg  .

Cassandra

Alex,

Asylum seekers do have the 'limited right to remain' whilst their claim is processed. 'Illegal immigration' which is your term here, specifically applies to only a tiny minority of those who enter the UK (that we know of!). Article 14 of the Declaration of The European Convention on Human Rights states that: all people have the right 'to seek and to enjoy asylum from persecution in other countries'. This threshold agreement to entry is the principal so misunderstood by the British public at large and is misdescribed as 'illegal immigration'.

As I've said before if we want to stop the present method of allowing and then vetting asylum applicants within this remit, then we must exit the ECHR. Taken the massively woke complexion of MP's from all parties this simply will never happen. Therefore Politicians overall realise that this issue whilst infuriating to the voting public, makes them collectively unable to affect change by changing their vote's - in reality rendering them impotent.

Also throughout the whole term that 'limited right to remain' endures, 'applicants for asylum' are entitled to all the benefits that a full UK citizen enjoys (apart from a passport). Any legal offences committed are also similarly dealt with.

Should the accused 'Ablolom Okbazge be found guilty, his claim for asylum will still be processed. If upheld, then he could leave prison (if guilty) as a British Citizen, albeit one with a criminal record. His trial commences January 24th.

Thereafter if denied the right to remain 'indefinitely' or settlement as it's alternatively termed (a status 95% of applicants achieve) the failed applicant is deported. Then another process takes over to determine just where they get sent back to, as most arrive with no substantive ID.

The British government has yet to strike agreements with EU countries on returning failed asylum seekers. Brexit means the EU's regulations, allowing member states in some circumstances to return asylum seekers to an EU country they passed through, no longer apply to the UK.
My little Dog - A heartbeat at my feet ...

crabbyob

on a similar vein in America, the indiginous people have reservations, and a lot od American laws are not recognised by these people AKA red Indians... a friend in Canada tells me that they pay no tax on cigarettes bought on the reservations or Casinos...
now i had lung cancer and had half a lung removed, it was these same indigenous people that introduced tobacco to our shores.... might i be able to sue THEM for my cancer?.. [1050]

Alex

Sorry Cass, I keep forgetting 'illegal' is the wrong term to use, I should have said asylum seekers, i.e. those seeking asylum from life in France  :cool: 

If they have the legal right to remain while their claim is processed and they commit a serious crime during the wait, why is their claim not automatically thrown out ? 

There are so many rape and sexual assault cases, a lot committed in the north of England so unless you read the Hull Times or the St Helens Star, not all are reported by national papers. 

This situation does my blood pressure no good at all, I guess the solution for me is not to read what's happening out there and stick to cooking recipes !!!
but of course I won't........ :grin:




Jacqueline

Quote from: Alex on January 10, 2022, 04:43:21 PM
Sorry Cass, I keep forgetting 'illegal' is the wrong term to use, I should have said asylum seekers, i.e. those seeking asylum from life in France  :cool: 

If they have the legal right to remain while their claim is processed and they commit a serious crime during the wait, why is their claim not automatically thrown out ? 

There are so many rape and sexual assault cases, a lot committed in the north of England so unless you read the Hull Times or the St Helens Star, not all are reported by national papers. 

This situation does my blood pressure no good at all, I guess the solution for me is not to read what's happening out there and stick to cooking recipes !!!
but of course I won't........ :grin:

It beggars belief that "asylum seekers/refugees" can be so choosey, travel halfway around the world at considerable expense to seek safety.  So  every other country in the world is violent and oppressive? 

Yes Alex, I believe the government should be responsible for that Aboblob bloke and his crime against some poor woman.  They let him in and thought him fit to wander among the rest of us, the buck stops with them they should be looking after us and protecting us form the invaders.  The law is not fit for purpose.

Cassandra

#5
Quote from: Alex on January 10, 2022, 04:43:21 PM
... If they have the legal right to remain while their claim is processed and they commit a serious crime during the wait, why is their claim not automatically thrown out ? ...

The Refugee Convention of 1951, agreed by 149 States of which we were signatories was convened to ratify any matters of 'refoulement' (push back) by member States of the ECHR 1951 (as amended) towards Refugee's

Of which under Asylum Rights, Article 33 states

1. No Contracting State shall expel or return ("refouler") a refugee in any manner whatsoever to the frontiers of territories where his life or freedom would be threatened on account of his race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion.

2 . The benefit of the present provision may not, however, be claimed by a refugee to whom there are reasonable grounds for regarding as a danger to the security of the country in which he is, or who, having been convicted by a final judgment of a particularly serious crime, constitutes a danger to the community of that country

I believe however the UK can also exclude Ablolom Okbazge's application under Article 1Fb Article 16 of the 1951 Convention?

This specifically excludes persons whose past criminal acts are especially egregious. Rape, is an example of such applicable offence.

In parallel Article 33 of the 1951 Convention, permits the return of a refugee if there are reasonable grounds for regarding the refugee as a danger to the security of the country or who, having been convicted by a final judgement of a particularly serious crime, constitutes a danger to the security of that country.

Furthermore The serious crime must also be non-political,  inflicting extreme human suffering, and/or which violate the jus cogens rules of international law and cannot possibly be justified by any political objective.

However as always the 'Human Rights Law Firm' from Islington representing the accused will claim discrepancies no doubt in the intent of his deportation under the terminology of 'security to a country' and that he poses no threat etc etc.

Of course theres the small matter of being found 'Guilty' as the decision in his Trial later this month.

Again how can we deport him and to where, if we can't prove where he came from in the first place?
My little Dog - A heartbeat at my feet ...

Cassandra

Quote from: Jacqueline on January 10, 2022, 07:21:30 PM
Yes Alex, I believe the government should be responsible for that Aboblob bloke and his crime against some poor woman. They let him in and thought him fit to wander among the rest of us, the buck stops with them they should be looking after us and protecting us form the invaders.  The law is not fit for purpose.

The Gov't has no choice but to admit those registering a claim for Asylum under the terms of the ECHR 1951. No Government can be responsible for the actions of individuals except possibly those 'released' on parole where such judgement to emancipation being granted is questionable.

Exiting both the ECHR and The Refugee Convention would free us from their statutes and liabilities yes. However, in a world where citizens can now tear down established monuments to those who are long dead and cancel people like Shakespeare, Dickens and Churchill willy nilly, doesn't suggest its a release in the offing?
My little Dog - A heartbeat at my feet ...

Michael Rolls

Thank you for the days, the days you gave me
[email protected]

klondike

doesn't suggest its a release in the offing

While this is true enough there are a lot of red wall Tory MPs whose buttocks will be a twitchin' and sphincters tensing at the prospect of entering the next election with absolutely nothing done. If nothing else this may see the end of the fellow who makes my hair look tidy.

Something for voters to ponder. ..
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Cassandra

Quote from: klondike on January 10, 2022, 09:41:08 PM
doesn't suggest its a release in the offing

While this is true enough there are a lot of red wall Tory MPs whose buttocks will be a twitchin' and sphincters tensing at the prospect of entering the next election with absolutely nothing done. If nothing else this may see the end of the fellow who makes my hair look tidy.

:grin: :grin: :grin:
My little Dog - A heartbeat at my feet ...

GrannyMac

Thanks to Cass yet again for explaining the reality.  This criminal wasn't invited, he took advantage of an outdated system.  Of course we don't want criminals from other countries moving here, but unless the law is radically changed, it'll keep happening.
Its not how old you are, but how you are old. 💖

crabbyob

if i turn left at the end of the road i will crash my car, so i always turn righ, cant the govt stick churchills two fingered salute up and simply turn right, these garage bills are frightening.. :522_error:

Diasi

Quote from: Jacqueline on January 10, 2022, 07:21:30 PM
It beggars belief that "asylum seekers/refugees" can be so choosey, travel halfway around the world at considerable expense to seek safety.  So  every other country in the world is violent and oppressive? 

Yes Alex, I believe the government should be responsible for that Aboblob bloke and his crime against some poor woman.  They let him in and thought him fit to wander among the rest of us, the buck stops with them they should be looking after us and protecting us form the invaders.  The law is not fit for purpose.

Cassandra has explained, in detail, the law & terminolgy regarding asylum seekers as the law stands.

Unfortunately a correct explanation of the law doesn't stop the law from being not fit for purpose, it's just a correct explanation of a law that's not fit for purpose.

The legal terminology makes it virtually impossible for any immigrant to be classed as illegal.

It would be possible to virtually wipe out the offence of shop lifting by changing the law so that the shoplifter had to be caught with £5,000 of goods before an offence had been committed.

Make every day count, each day is precious.
"Death leaves a heartache no one can heal, love leaves a memory no one can steal".  (Cassandra)

klondike

Quote from: Diasi on January 11, 2022, 04:37:32 PM
The legal terminology makes it virtually impossible for any immigrant to be classed as illegal.
Yep. As I understand things they just need to utter the words "I wish to seek asylum" and they are magically transformed from an illegal alien into a bona fide asylum seeker protect by some law or otherand entitled to accomodation, food and pocket money. Unaccompanied child? The world is your seafood of choice.

I'm  thinking of rocking up on the sands at Dover when the weather improves and getting an all found fortnight's holiday in one of those nice hotels. No booking or id necessary.

Something for voters to ponder. ..
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Diasi

#14
Quote from: klondike on January 11, 2022, 04:44:47 PM
Yep. As I understand things they just need to utter the words "I wish to seek asylum" and they are magically transformed from an illegal alien into a bona fide asylum seeker protect by some law or otherand entitled to accomodation, food and pocket money. Unaccompanied child? The world is your seafood of choice.

I'm  thinking of rocking up on the sands at Dover when the weather improves and getting an all found fortnight's holiday in one of those nice hotels. No booking or id necessary.

I'm surprised that Nigel or Migration Watch haven't planted a whistleblower on the beach at Calais & paid for a place in a dinghy.

The Migration Watch spokesperson, talking to Nigel Farage on GBN, quite rightly said that the asylum laws which were formed 70 years ago in the wake of WW2, are no longer fit for purpose in the modern world.

He said that the asylum definition needs to be tightened up considerably.
Make every day count, each day is precious.
"Death leaves a heartache no one can heal, love leaves a memory no one can steal".  (Cassandra)