How's This for Plain Downright Stupid.

[klondike]

You see, for example, a car may have automatic transmission but the driver is still responsible if the car does something unexpected, like shooting backwards over the pavement at 30 mph into a shop window.

In truth there is an excellent reason for that. No automatic I've ever driven is capable of moving the gear shift into R and flooring the accelerator all by itself.

[Alex]

I heard these details on the radio only yesterday.

"According to data made public by American safety regulators, automakers recorded from May 2021 to date, roughly 400 crashes involving vehicles with automated driver-assist systems, that included 273 Teslas"

I'm with Raven, I won't be getting in one, I like my foot in charge of the brake 

[Michael Rolls]

A good few years ago, I think that it was Mercedes who installed an improved braking system which reduced the distance travelled from brake application to full stop - then they found their cars being back-ended by cars with less efficient brakes. IIRC, at autobahn speeds, following cars were still doing something like 20 mph at impact. This has the makings of similar problems with self drive and driver driven vehicles mixed.
Mike

[Countryman]

I think I would feel far safer in a SDC than with quite a few drivers I have shared a car with!

[klondike]

I remember years back getting a lift to the Aveley parts depot with my manager in his new 3l Capri. He was moaning about a shimmy in the steering at over 100. I wouldn't have particularly minded about the over 100 if we had been more than 100 yards from the end of the M10.

There were a couple of other incidents on the same journey which would make this sound like a Brian post. How my underpants survived I'll never know but I never got a lift with him again.

[Michael Rolls]

yes, there are some awful drivers around - which makes me worry even more about SDCs - can they anticipate idiocy?
Mike

[Diasi]

Unless I have misunderstood, but drivers will still be responsible, and have to be ready to take over if required.

Yes, you have misunderstood.

[Ashy]

In truth there is an excellent reason for that. No automatic I've ever driven is capable of moving the gear shift into R and flooring the accelerator all by itself.

No indeed but sometimes the gear shift gets left in reverse whilst manoeuvring.

[klondike]

No different from a manual. If somebody doesn't know what gear they are in then obviously any accident caused by that oversight is considered to be their fault.

[Diasi]

No different from a manual. If somebody doesn't know what gear they are in then obviously any accident caused by that oversight is considered to be their fault.

But a manual stalls a lot easier than an automatic plus in a manual you don't often press the wrong pedals.

I'll place a bet that 99% of cars that have shot across a garage forecourt or shot through a shop window have been an automatic.

[klondike]

You're almost certainly correct but the discussion was on who is to blame not whether it's easier to drive off unintentionally with manual or auto and the answer to that is always the driver regardless.

[Michael Rolls]

Well, this from a working party of the Law Commission:-

>>>The person in the driving seat of a self-driving car should not be held legally accountable if it crashes, watchdogs have proposed.
A joint report by the Law Commission of England and Wales and the Scottish Law Commission recommended legal reforms that would see driverless car users exempt from prosecution if anything goes wrong with the automation.

This could include causing an accident, speeding, running a red light or other dangerous actions.

Instead, they want the company or software developer that gained authorisation for the technology to be held legally responsible for the driving aspects of automated cars.<<<

Frankly, the whole concept fills me with dread - I think folk are trying to run before they can walk, same as with the push for electric vehicles with an infrastructure totally unprepared to cope.
Mike

[Diasi]

You're almost certainly correct but the discussion was on who is to blame not whether it's easier to drive off unintentionally with manual or auto and the answer to that is always the driver regardless.

Well that's correct but my point still remains that it's far easier for a driver to make a mistake in an automatic car than it is in a manual car.

August 23, 2022, 08:56:59 AM

Well, this from a working party of the Law Commission:-

>>>The person in the driving seat of a self-driving car should not be held legally accountable if it crashes, watchdogs have proposed.
A joint report by the Law Commission of England and Wales and the Scottish Law Commission recommended legal reforms that would see driverless car users exempt from prosecution if anything goes wrong with the automation.

This could include causing an accident, speeding, running a red light or other dangerous actions.

Instead, they want the company or software developer that gained authorisation for the technology to be held legally responsible for the driving aspects of automated cars.<<<

Frankly, the whole concept fills me with dread - I think folk are trying to run before they can walk, same as with the push for electric vehicles with an infrastructure totally unprepared to cope.
Mike

It'll be interesting watching the police & the courts trying to prosecute the manufacturers for thousands of motoring offences.

It'll also be interesting to see how the insurance works out as the car owner isn't a driver & therefore can never be at fault.

[klondike]

Well, this from a working party of the Law Commission:-

>>>The person in the driving seat of a self-driving car should not be held legally accountable if it crashes, watchdogs have proposed.
A joint report by the Law Commission of England and Wales and the Scottish Law Commission recommended legal reforms that would see driverless car users exempt from prosecution if anything goes wrong with the automation.

This could include causing an accident, speeding, running a red light or other dangerous actions.

Instead, they want the company or software developer that gained authorisation for the technology to be held legally responsible for the driving aspects of automated cars.<<<

Quite correct IMO. If you are a passenger on a bus you are not responsible if there is an accident. That is down to the driver (or third party). The "driver" of an autonomous vehicle is the software and if that is faulty the responsibility lies with the supplier.

This will of course mean we won't be getting autonomous vehicles any time soon if it is adopted. The current sensors and software are simply not up to the task.

Well that's correct but my point still remains that it's far easier for a driver to make a mistake in an automatic car than it is in a manual car.

As I said not in dispute.