Another Tony Martin?

[klondike]

There do seem to be more murders reported on the news these days, especially in Londonistan, though probably mainly by white criminals.

A hell of a lot of the murders these days are black on black. Plus of course there are those who will kill random strangers in search of paradise and the fabled virgins. Most often blades are used but the drugs traders don't seem to be very well versed in gun law and pretty much ignore it. It's only the law abiding that obey laws and that is doubly so for gun and knife law.

[Alex]

From what I read it's mainly blacks killing blacks, quite often teenagers are the victims.  The rape increase appears to be mainly black on white. 

[JBR]

From what I read it's mainly blacks killing blacks, quite often teenagers are the victims.  The rape increase appears to be mainly black on white. 

Around here - in fact Rochdale in particular - it isn't black on white, it is entirely 'Asian' on white.

I'd like to add that I used the word 'Asian' in this instance in order to point out that I strongly disagree with the use of that word, which some 'polite' people use to avoid the word 'Pakistani' or even 'Muslim'.

I find its use offensive when I think about the Indian people, many of whom I know, who are completely above the level of those of Pakistani origin who are the ones who uniquely seem to be the real dusky people in the woodpile when it comes to raping young girls.

In fact, I'd use the (four letter) 'P' word routinely if I thought I could get away with it!  🤣

[Cassandra]

Thanks Cassandra for expanding on this.

Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that you can use force, including lethal force, if an intruder leads you to believe that they are armed even if they turn out not to be, under the CPS rules of not having to wait to be actually attacked.

It must be quite refreshing to now live in a country where you don't have to stand placidly while an intruder attacks you or risk a life sentence if you protect yourself.

There are many cases of precedence referring to the application of 'Reasonable Force' for example and to answer your question on validity to self defence and pre-emption:

It is not absolutely necessary that the defendant be attacked first. As Lord Griffith said in Beckford v R [1988] AC 130: "A man about to be attacked does not have to wait for his assailant to strike the first blow or fire the first shot; circumstances may justify a pre-emptive strike."

However there has to be a time to 'cease hostilities'. For example belabouring the body of an already unconscious person, thereby inflicting 'unnecessary  force', resulting in further injury than was required.

In the case of Court of Appeal in N. Ireland in Fegan [1972] NI 80, the appeal court established that the possession of a firearm for the purpose of protecting the possessor may be possession for a lawful object, even though the possession was unlawful, being without a licence. (Applicable of course to Tony Martin!)

On these circumstantial occurrences Lord Lane CJ wisely said in another trial:

'There is no question of a person in danger of attack "writing his own immunity" for violent future acts of his. He is not confined for his remedy to calling in the police or boarding up his premises. He may still arm himself for his own protection, if the exigency arises, although in so doing he may commit other offences. That he may be guilty of other offences will avoid the risk of anarchy contemplated by the Reference.'

In other words don't manufacture your own  justifications for murder.

I once defended a retired professional heavy weight boxer. During an attack on him and his wife by two armed muggers in an unlit underpass, he'd already been stabbed by the principal assailant. He hit this man once and this blow resulted in him striking  the wall a foot behind him fracturing is skull and dying from the resultant injuries. Regina argued he'd used excessive force and that he was dead before his head hit the wall. I established that forensic evidence suggested differently and pointed out to the jury that the defendant had not selected a confined unlit pedestrian underpass rather than a padded arena for this assault. Furthermore having already lost a deal of blood, adrenalinic boost had set in and nature had to ensure that the attacker was negated: and he could not be held responsible for the surrounding geometry of the ungodly's choice of attack siting. We won and the case was collapsed by the Crown with a handsome reward of costs. The Beak said privately to Counsels afterwards that the DPP should never have prosecuted. How right.

Whilst of course finding any violence sad, I feel re-assured to legally have a variety of firearms at my disposal in today's world. For example I always keep the two derringers I own in the cars (as do many people out here, whether they admit it or not). Having defended many killers of all criterion in my lifetime and been severely shot myself once, I know which environ I'd now rather live in. Of course I'm an extreme profile  historically, but reading and talking to old friends residing in the heart of London still I'm relieved I no longer live in a City I once treasured.

[Diasi]

Once again, thanks Cassandra for such a well-informed expansion of my post.

I love your graphic description of the assault & repercussions thereof in the underpass.

It almost sounds as though you were taking the piss out of the prosecution team.

Lol 

[Cassandra]

Once again, thanks Cassandra for such a well-informed expansion of my post.

I love your graphic description of the assault & repercussions thereof in the underpass.

It almost sounds as though you were taking the piss out of the prosecution team.

Lol 

Actually Phil a colleague from my chambers took the brief as Prosecutor, knowing he had a zero chance before the ribbons were off the briefs. The twenty something oikh from Starmer's lot (DPP) had no idea at all about the law and had an 'ord' in bee-keeping I think! We all dined out on it for years as a 'post prandial' recollection.

The 'accused' weighed in at just under 19 stone of solid muscle standing barefoot at 6'5". I once saw an opponent hook him full on the left jaw and he just ignored it and kept coming. My mother was very fond of him and the Jury loved this big gentle man from the go! We of course looked quite comical together, little & large. He kept referring to me as 'my mate over there' to the great amusement of his 12 fans on the benches of decision. Very 'Arthur Mullard', a genial giant and a fine pugilist and staunch West Ham follower. His list of character witnesses ranged amongst the famous from the world of sport and journalism. In fact my pal, his prosecutor accused me of "winning six times over, just to rub it in". Lovely tiny wife, they worshipped each other. He retired the ring to general gardening maintenance, living in a beautiful self restored railway carriage in East Sussex, where they kept goats. Someone I was very fond of, a good friend at my side in bad times, many years after his moment of infamy.

[Alex]

I love these stories Cass, keep 'em coming please 

[Diasi]

I love these stories Cass, keep 'em coming please 

  So do I.

Cassandra makes them so graphic it's as though I know these people.

[muddy]

They are excellent .

[Scrumpy]

Such an interesting life..Would gladly sit with Cassandra at my dinner table..

[Michael Rolls]

hear, hear

[GrannyMac]

Waiting for the start of a series!  Books then TV?

[Cassandra]

Thank you everyone. To my father's eternal chagrin I wound up in criminal law, much due to my now famous 'uncle' John Mortimer. Many others took to 'Contract' or 'Corporate' Law. Mostly the rather seedy looking clients who were in the 'waiting room' were always assumed to be mine. So whilst many were CEO's, or at the very least Private Company Secretary Directors, waiting to see another partner in our chambers! mine were usually Petermen, Con Artists or those out on Bail etc. Although I took over my father's 'book' from the world of showbiz and 'JM' also kindly recommended me to similar clients from his own career, upon retirement. That said he always arrived in court to advise me (from behind) with little notes (which today I'm so glad to have kept). However my side of the business never went through 'thin' times, as demand was always exceeding supply, with family inheritances of the black arts ensuring continuity and expansion down the decades.

Now as my innings draws to it's close I'm so happy that I chose my particular avenue of law to meander down. There are so many wonderful stories to recollect. The 'ungodly' were most interesting to contemplate and the 'after dinner tale' content far more comical to relate. The top echelon of Criminals, in my experience also possess unique qualities that separates them from the norm. They not only make the very utmost of their skills, but they learn to listen and recognise opportunity! They are surprisingly, or were loyal to their 'mates'.

Also the Judges in the criminal division were so wonderful too, although some of them were very 'trying' at times (excuse the intended pun).