Will we really do it?

[klondike]

I think we'll find that the "unelectable party" turns out to be all too electable. Unless they are fools enough to allow Blair to get involved to any extent. If the Tories promised to hang him they may stand a chance.

[Weapons Grade]

Is there any difference between the two main parties anymore and is that why there's a genaeral apathy? Labour gave up its working class roots under Blair and has now gone woke. When was the last time you heard Labour supporting the working classes?

Meanwhile, the Conservatives morphed into something out of a Del Boy ''Only fools and horses'' script and have spent the last few years mired in allegations of sleaze and corruption. Following a musical chairs game of PM and Ministerial resignations, Rishi is himself under investigation for corruption.

There was a time when both these parties stood for something, you might not have agreed with what they said, but they were passionate about what they stood for. That seems to have gone and all we're left with are the usual promises which even as we're voting we know won't be kept.
 
I look at the Reform Party and I see the same Brexit promises that Boris and Nigel Farage made. We're going to have secure borders, lower energy prices, zero NHS waiting lists ... Last Night at the Proms, Rule Brittania? It's all over. Like it or not, we're now a multicultural society in a post colonial era at the end of our industrial revolution. There is no magical party that will turn Britain around, what you now see is what you get.

[dextrous63]

You may well be right Weapons Grade (welcome btw and I hope you manage to get reunited with your family soon!)

But it does seem a bit silly to vote for the parties that have actually got us into this quagmire in the first place through their duplicitous incompetences.

[GrannyMac]

The working classes of old Labour, how are they defined today?  Huge industries with (too?) powerful trade unions have dwindled, due to the rise in tech and cheap imports.  

We have huge numbers of people on sickness and disability benefits, many of whom could be in paid employment.  I credit recent Labour governments with encouraging the can't be arsed brigade to claim. A parent who can get a disability benefit as well as benefits for children and a carer's allowance for nan who lives nearby won't be hard up, especially if they are in social housing.  And the foodbank is handy too.  Some children grow up with no work ethic, they can afford nice phones, Sky etc., so whats the point of education or a job?

[Diasi]

The working classes of old Labour, how are they defined today?  Huge industries with (too?) powerful trade unions have dwindled, due to the rise in tech and cheap imports. 

We have huge numbers of people on sickness and disability benefits, many of whom could be in paid employment.  I credit recent Labour governments with encouraging the can't be arsed brigade to claim. A parent who can get a disability benefit as well as benefits for children and a carer's allowance for nan who lives nearby won't be hard up, especially if they are in social housing.  And the foodbank is handy too.  Some children grow up with no work ethic, they can afford nice phones, Sky etc., so whats the point of education or a job?

Indeed, you are spot on as virtually all parents on benefits seem to have at least one Autistic child which is worth another few £hundred a month + the add-ons.

[klondike]

Is there any difference between the two main parties anymore and is that why there's a genaeral apathy?

Both the same really. Both apparently in favour of mass immigration yet neither have a clue how to improve the country's housing, services and infrastructure to support the resulting increased population.

Both in favour of Net Zero with no complete (or probably even partial) plans on how that will be achieved, how the increased costs will be funded and ignoring the fact that globally it will amount to net zero difference anyway with China, India and Africa ramping up fossil fuel energy production. Not that I am in any way convinced any more that the actually rather modest temperature rise is down to human action anyway now. I was originally but no longer.

Neither capable of organising a Christmas party in a Carlsberg production facility and having jointly got shot of the bloke who allowed them in Number 10.

Nothing works in the country any more. Nothing will change after the next election which will bring forth a Labour government with a huge majority. I'm still by no means sure that the largely Marxist Labour membership won't get rid of the hapless and ineffectual Starmer and usher in somebody they approve of. What will the public do? SFA is my bet.

[Alex]

No difference in the parties, but because I'm pixxed off with the Tories, doesn't mean I'll vote Labour - been there, done that etc...  There has to be an alternative to the two main parties, if we keep voting the same we'll get the same, so I'll give Reform a shot. 

[Weapons Grade]

You may well be right Weapons Grade (welcome btw and I hope you manage to get reunited with your family soon!)

But it does seem a bit silly to vote for the parties that have actually got us into this quagmire in the first place through their duplicitous incompetences.

We can't change what is, so I simply won't vote. I'll show my little cog in a big wheel displeasure by being one of the thirty something percent that ignored them. Come the revolution ...


September 08, 2023, 12:53:37 PM

The working classes of old Labour, how are they defined today?  Huge industries with (too?) powerful trade unions have dwindled, due to the rise in tech and cheap imports. 

We have huge numbers of people on sickness and disability benefits, many of whom could be in paid employment.  I credit recent Labour governments with encouraging the can't be arsed brigade to claim. A parent who can get a disability benefit as well as benefits for children and a carer's allowance for nan who lives nearby won't be hard up, especially if they are in social housing.  And the foodbank is handy too.  Some children grow up with no work ethic, they can afford nice phones, Sky etc., so whats the point of education or a job?

When I get my current medical problem fixed I could probably work as well, but why bother? As soon as I start work I lose my housing allowance and pension credits and I'm financially worse off. Which puts me firmly in the can't be arsed camp.
 
We live in a minimum wage gig economy and I've already worked out to make it worth my while I'd need upwards of £25ph. No one is paying that. The days of working hard, saving up, getting on the property ladder, the shame of being on benefits ... All that has gone now and it's grab what you can.  

[klondike]

We can't change what is, so I simply won't vote.

No vote no right to complain. Not that complaining does any good. If you don't want to vote for any party you could draw a dick on the voting slip instead and it would show as a spoiled ballot. Not voting shows as don't care.

[JBR]

No vote no right to complain. Not that complaining does any good. If you don't want to vote for any party you could draw a dick on the voting slip instead and it would show as a spoiled ballot. Not voting shows as don't care.

Exactly what I did on the recent local elections.
Well, not a dick, but I wrote "Reform UK" across all the boxes, though Reform wasn't standing.

No, of course it won't make any difference to the count, but it might remind some people that there is a third alternative next time.

[Weapons Grade]

No vote no right to complain. Not that complaining does any good. If you don't want to vote for any party you could draw a dick on the voting slip instead and it would show as a spoiled ballot. Not voting shows as don't care.

If complaining doesn't do any good, why vote? Not voting means there is no party on the ballot paper I trust as far as I could throw them. How many politicians take note of spoiled ballot papers?

[klondike]

How many politicians take note of spoiled ballot papers?

Even if it were only one that's one more than takes any notice of an absent ballot paper.

Every declaration gives a count of spoiled ballots. Perhaps if they reached a significant number it might be noted.

Not that I will spoil my next ballot. I'll vote Reform. That number will certainly be recorded. Will they get any seats? Of course not. Would they be able to deliver on their manifesto even if they were the government? Probably not as the bloody civil service is who does the actual running of the country and if they don't like some policy it won't get done.

The reason I'll vote Reform is simple. I have always voted. None of the main parties are worth a vote. Reform is a populist party and so a protest vote. The bigger that protest is the better. Non voters can have no legitimate complaint about anything the government does. There will be plenty to complain about in the years to come believe me.

[Weapons Grade]

If a party came along that I thought might, or just possibly mean what they say, I'd vote for them.
But look, isn't all this wishful thinking? We had over two decades of filling soft heads by remain PM's that dragged us into the EU. Cameron, May, Boris, Truss, they were all remainers.

We've had decades of mass immigration, the problems we now have wouldn't go away even if it suddenly stopped. The character and demography of the UK has already completely changed.

We destroyed our economy with Covid lockdowns and restrictions and now we've sanctioned our energy supply. It wasn't Putin that stopped selling us energy, we stamped our foot and convinced ourselves we'd discover some mythical green energy supply instead.

We're now hanging on to the shirt tails of the US and getting more and more involved in the Ukraine. This isn't going to end well for us.

Now, if there's a political party that comes along and tells me they'll sort all this out and more importantly, explains how they'll do it, I'll vote for them.

[dextrous63]

Politics was, is, and always will be about wishful thinking. Hoping that somehow in multi-variable non deterministic chaotic world someone will somehow make a decision which will improve our place on the pyramid of life.

[GrannyMac]

We can't change what is, so I simply won't vote. I'll show my little cog in a big wheel displeasure by being one of the thirty something percent that ignored them. Come the revolution ...


September 08, 2023, 12:53:37 PMWhen I get my current medical problem fixed I could probably work as well, but why bother? As soon as I start work I lose my housing allowance and pension credits and I'm financially worse off. Which puts me firmly in the can't be arsed camp.
 
We live in a minimum wage gig economy and I've already worked out to make it worth my while I'd need upwards of £25ph. No one is paying that. The days of working hard, saving up, getting on the property ladder, the shame of being on benefits ... All that has gone now and it's grab what you can. 

No one would expect someone past state pension age to find work, plenty of younger people on benefits who should be earning.  No chance your wife would consider moving here on a spousal visa? What if you can't travel to her?  BTW I disagree that there are no opportunities.  There are all sorts of jobs of all sorts in lots of places in the UK.

Klondike, I always vote too, it'll be two votes for Reform here.