Once again the BBC (Britain Bashing Corporation) has filled its filthy boots with slurs towards some of our finest Hero's. Commenting upon it's 80th Birthday, presenter 'Sally Nugent' described the epic act of heroism, that was 'Operation Chastise or The Dambuster's Raid', as 'infamous'.
Just to add to this insulting terminology, the giant of historic opinion that is football pundit Jermaine Jesas again used this word that means; disreputable, ill-famed or of ill repute, again seven hours later on an evening show of low repute with viewing figures to match.
Nugent, whilst clearly dim-witted, as a Gen X should have appreciated the utter heroism and devotion to this nation that all who flew on this monumental mission demonstrated. In particular the 53 souls who never returned, many of them from the Commonwealth.
Jenas as a Millenial probably thinks of Dam Busters as something used to unplug a sink blockage. His willingness to read what was obviously a prepared statement without thought or comprehension to the consequences, reflects his dim-witted level of overall intelligence. Stick to the offside rule - idiot.
Perhaps neither of these overpaid, substandard cretins even understands what 'infamous' means?
"substandard cretins".
I wish I'd thought of that term for them.
I very much doubt if many of the Millenials even know the purpose of the raid or how it changed the course of the war.
I have to wonder, 80 years on from the raid & seeing the cesspit that the UK & Europe's becoming, whether we did ourselves any favours.
I think I'd rather have learned German than be looking at my descendants preparing to learn Arabic.
They seemed to have only noticed the name of his dog, not understanding its Latin origin.
I'm glad I didn't see that programme - the TV might not have survived!
INFAMOUS - from where the bloody hell did that foul comment come? At the time, quite apart from its significant help in crippling Germany's industrial output (admittedly to a lesser degree than had been hoped, but still significant), it was also an enormous boost to our morale on the home front - and 53 young men made the ultimate sacrifice to achieve it. I keep trying to look up a quote which - years later, still resounds in my mind 'greater love has no man than that he lays down his life for his friends'. They laid down their lives for us
Sorry - thinking about that, and that dreadful comment, has brought tears to my eyes - SCUM!!!"
I'm glad I don't watch the BBC. When I walked across the top of the Mohne Dam I felt quite sad and proud at the same time. More so for my dear Dad who walked off on his own, taking it all in and probably remembering what a huge operation it had been.
Quote from: Diasi on May 23, 2023, 04:49:55 PMI think I'd rather have learned German that be looking at my descendants preparing to learn Arabic.
I think you have missed the likely eventual outcome. You won't have descendents learning Arabic. You won't have any descendents.
Quote from: klondike on May 23, 2023, 07:25:04 PMI think you have missed the likely eventual outcome. You won't have descendents learning Arabic. You won't have any descendents.
Yes, you could well be right.
Here it is, latest woke insult below ...
BBC gutless and ephemeral as always tried to later say she made a 'grammatical' mistake. The same one that 'Johnny' footballer Jermaine Jenas made seven hours later - what a coincidence!
Obviously both were post-graduates from the BBC school of English Language and not Modern History (as it really happened, (not the Corporations bent re-writes).
I met a few of these wonderful chaps at the RAF Club, Piccadilly in 2001, who were guests of a friend of my fathers, this man himself a decorated Squadron leader at a private lunch. I for once was speechless as one told in a 'post prandial' address just what it was like heading for the AAA towers, 50 feet above the water. He was the 'bomb aimer'!
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tv/22369259/bbc-breakfast-fans-demand-apology-sally-nugent-embarrassing-blunder/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/tv/22369259/bbc-breakfast-fans-demand-apology-sally-nugent-embarrassing-blunder/)
I see in the story there was mention of Dresden which was mentioned as possibly being infamous.
My view on that episode is one I have not seen mentioned but seems to me to be obvious. The smell of cold war was already in the air. The Russians were approaching the city. I think it was obliterated as a demonstration to the Russians just what the British and Americans could achieve. Probably more were killed there than in Hiroshima later as the transient population at the time was huge and entirely unknown with any certainty. Militarily it almost certainly was not justifiable but politically it certainly was. The numbers have been downplayed after imo. Would I have allowed it had I had the power at the time. 100% yes. The Germans were reaping the whirlwind.
Appalling adjective to use about the Dambusters. The level of ignorance is quite astounding.
well, what can you expect when, on the occasion of the Queen's Golden Jubilee. in describing the river flotilla, a presenter - can't remember who, referred to HMS Belfast, a 6 inch 11,500 ton light cruiser as a 90,000 ton battleship! Really! Even the IJN Yamato and Mushashi - the biggest battleships ever built, were 'only' 74,600 tons.
Carling Black Label - Dambusters (1989, UK) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyuDUVnePsU)
My uncle was a navigator in Bomber Command. He went in as a bright young engineering student ready for university, came out a bus conductor. A lot of brave young men sacrificed their lives in many ways for our safety. Like all Bomber Command veterans , this advert hit his funny bone and was seen as a tribute .
Only the British.
Quote from: 1955vintage on May 24, 2023, 09:00:46 AMMy uncle was a navigator in Bomber Command. He went in as a bright young engineering student ready for university, came out a bus conductor. A lot of brave young men sacrificed their lives in many ways for our safety. Like all Bomber Command veterans , this advert hit his funny bone and was seen as a tribute .
Only the British.
Great advert, it's the look on the pilot's face when they take off the masks & the co-pilot is still unintelligible. :grin:
Indeed, one of my much older ex-colleagues in the 1980s had been a tail gunner in Bomber Command & he was a lovely bloke, but twitchy as hell.
One of my first immediate managers had been a flight engineer on Lancasters. He was a real great bloke. My son got the pleasure or otherwise of his name. It's not a common one and it meant he got remembered.
never seen that before - really amusing. A senior colleague of mine had been a navigator on Lancs a lttle later by the time BC had switched to day light raidS. Due in leave, he swapped with a colleague and saw his usual crew blown out of the sky – no survivors. Those who moan over the work of BC, including the Dresden raid, get no sympathy from me. Dresden was a major hub at the time. If you don't like what happened there - look at Coventry, the East End, Rotterdam and shut up
My father was an aircraft fitter and spent a lot of the war in Africa. He volunteered for Bomber Command. He wanted to be a navigator but all they could offer was air gunner. His then CO persuaded him that he was more use where he was so he didn't accept the air gunner offer. I suspect that had it gone the other way there would have been no klondike as the attrition rate was awful in Bomber Command.
Percentage per head, the highest rate of attrition in any of the UK's armed forces
Yet no medal for 'Bomber Command'. The Grandfathers of Woke were at it even then. I love the cynical hypocrisy of Politicians. They create the policy to bomb the hun and then refuse to honour the brave men their decisions killed.
The successes of Bomber Command were purchased at terrible cost. Of every 100 airmen who joined Bomber Command, 45 were killed, 6 were seriously wounded, 8 became Prisoners of War, and only 41 escaped unscathed (at least physically). Of the 120,000 who served, 55,573 were killed including over 10,000 Canadians.
And still no medal! Why, why should we be ashamed at merely returning to Hitler what he started. History will certainly be re-written once the bloody Woke have strangled the UK to death ...
Arthur Travers (Bomber) Harris got it dead right here ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJB4hbGUjw4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJB4hbGUjw4)
I think that it is shameful that there is no medal for BC. A late colleague of mine was a navigator of Lancs and survived purely by chance - it was a daylight raid and he was on a day's leave but swapped with someone so was on the raid instead of on the ground. He saw the plane in which he normally flew blown out of the air - no survivors.
Flt Sgt Peter Brown: Hundreds attend funeral of WW2 RAF airman - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-65697939)
Apparently, if they were Jamaican , they were heroes....
they were all heroes
Quote from: 1955vintage on May 25, 2023, 04:26:00 PMFlt Sgt Peter Brown: Hundreds attend funeral of WW2 RAF airman - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-65697939)
Apparently, if they were Jamaican , they were heroes....
Really?
As Mike says they were all heroes. When a lot of British people say things about their fathers or other family members who fought in the war, they often don't include the contribution made by those like him.
He was 96. Died without any family here, and didn't ask for any fuss. People who knew him cared enough to have a memorial service for him.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11893667/Hunt-family-one-Pilots-Caribbean-died-London-flat-aged-96.html
I was unaware of the fact that members of Bomber Command were refused medals.
I can only assume that this was a political decision not to reward those who were on the attack (perhaps related to operations like Dresden), rather than defence.
I find that disgusting and probably typical of the pen-pushers who decided that and who, needless to day, never had to risk their own lives as did the BC airmen.
Individuals got medals for specific acts of bravery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Gibson
Wing Commander Guy Penrose Gibson, VC, DSO & Bar, DFC* (12 August 1918 – 19 September 1944) was a distinguished bomber pilot in the Royal Air Force during the Second World War. He was the first Commanding Officer of No. 617 Squadron, which he led in the "Dam Busters" raid in 1943, resulting in the breaching of two large dams in the Ruhr area of Germany. He was awarded the Victoria Cross, the highest award for gallantry in the face of the enemy that can be awarded to British and Commonwealth forces, in the aftermath of the raid in May 1943 and became the most highly decorated British serviceman at that time. He completed over 170 war operations before being killed in action at the age of 26.
There was no specific medal for everybody who was part of the campaign. This was belatedly remedied in 2013.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939%E2%80%931945_Star
On 8 July 1943, the 1939–43 Star (later named the 1939–1945 Star) and the Africa Star became the first two campaign stars instituted, and by May 1945 a total of eight stars and nine clasps had been established by the United Kingdom to reward campaign service during the Second World War. One more campaign star, the Arctic Star, and one more clasp, the Bomber Command Clasp, were belatedly added on 26 February 2013, more than sixty-seven years after the end of the war.
Quote from: 1955vintage on May 25, 2023, 04:26:00 PMFlt Sgt Peter Brown: Hundreds attend funeral of WW2 RAF airman - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-65697939)
Apparently, if they were Jamaican , they were heroes....
A brave man, good to hear he had friends and caring neighbours, so he didn't die alone.
Quote from: Alex on May 26, 2023, 09:57:38 PMA brave man, good to hear he had friends and caring neighbours, so he didn't die alone.
Yes indeed Alex, so many unfortunately do, truly great men, lost in the vagrancies of time. The Americans are genuinely far more appreciative than we are towards their Ex servicemen. Back last year when at a delightful dinner, served upon my neighbours converted Tug-boat - our host proposed a toast to one of the fellow diners. He was a former Marine who'd won the 'Congressional Medal of Honour' in Vietnam. This is their equivalent to the V.C.
They also have very well funded and thriving support associations for all of this category who may have fallen on hard times. Some sadly choose lives of destitution and poverty, but are never allowed, if at all possible to pass unnoticed.
They do seem to treat their military better then we do, ex and serving. No idea why they're not valued here in UK
Quote from: Alex on May 26, 2023, 10:28:58 PMThey do seem to treat their military better then we do, ex and serving. No idea why they've not valued here in UK
In many ways they certainly do, and our own servicemen deserve much better.
On the other hand, they do seem to overdo the issue of medals, looking at some of the American servicemen you see in pictures. It's as if they give them a gong for going to the toilet successfully! 🤣
QuoteIt's as if they give them a gong for going to the toilet successfully!
As I get older, this appeals to me more.
Quote from: JBR on May 26, 2023, 11:14:03 PMIn many ways they certainly do, and our own servicemen deserve much better.
On the other hand, they do seem to overdo the issue of medals, looking at some of the American servicemen you see in pictures. It's as if they give them a gong for going to the toilet successfully! 🤣
quite apart from gallantry medals, the US forces have an enormous (by our standards) number of service medals awarded for serving somewhere, so an individual who has served for a reasonable period of time is likely to pick up a number of such awards simply for being somewhere. A late colleague (RAF with a DFC) rather scathingly referred to them as 'Sunday school attendance medals'!
May 27, 2023, 09:05:17 AMout of idle curiosity, I looked up General (later President) Eisenhower. He was awarded 69 medals! Don't know if he ever wore them all at once, but there couldn't have been much room for uniform if he did!
Quote from: Michael Rolls on May 27, 2023, 08:52:58 AMquite apart from gallantry medals, the US forces have an enormous (by our standards) number of service medals awarded for serving somewhere, so an individual who has served for a reasonable period of time is likely to pick up a number of such awards simply for being somewhere. A late colleague (RAF with a DFC) rather scathingly referred to them as 'Sunday school attendance medals'!
May 27, 2023, 09:05:17 AM
out of idle curiosity, I looked up General (later President) Eisenhower. He was awarded 69 medals! Don't know if he ever wore them all at once, but there couldn't have been much room for uniform if he did!
What some people don't realise is that lots of medals doesn't signify much if they are given out like chocolates, whereas our medals are not handed out willy-nilly and are therefore more valued.
By that token, a VC would be worth several CMHs!
when you look at some of the recipients of both, I wouldn't agree - by the way it is the 'Medal of Honour' NOT the Congressional medal of honour, a mistake which upsets some of its recipients with its implied political overtones.
Look up the late Audie Murphy and see how he warranted his - incredible courage in the face of overwhelming odds. To be fair, Murphy was America's most decorated soldier of WW2 (Eisenhower served in WW1 and WW2 plus the Pancho Villa expedition, receiving awards for all three) and had he been a Brit, I doubt that he would have got quite so many awards, but the exploits that gained him the MoH, had he been a Brit, I am positive would have merited the VC
To be honest, my only medal is in the turning up for Sunday school category, but I am still proud of it
Take a look at Charlie's....
Quote from: klondike on May 27, 2023, 03:26:10 PMTake a look at Charlie's....
Yes, very interesting, and not one of them for any sort of effort, let alone danger.
All presents from Mummy so as not to make him feel undervalued!