This seems to be at the head of the news today. A man wielding a full-sized sword in Londonistan (where else?) who has injured attending police officers.
He has finally been arrested and will, in time, no doubt be given a stern warning or possibly given a room in a nut house, with all mod cons of course.
What occurs to me to ask, if anyone should know, is whether ours is the only country in the world which does not provide its police with side arms for self-protection? And should we do so?
Of course, we wouldn't want to become like America, where the rule is 'shoot first and ask questions later'. However, all west European countries arm their police routinely, yet they don't suffer from the American attitude.
I have just heard a retired police man explaining (on GB News) that many police officers are now refusing to be armed simply because they know that they will not be supported, if they act to protect themselves or the public, by their superiors, the courts, or the government. A good reason why today we do not have the number of police which we really need.
Tragic, a 13 year old has died! Devastating for his family.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hainault-tube-station-stabbing-incident-latest-news-rpp39kvt7
Our police are vulnerable.. Their lives are at risk just being out there..
There is little respect for them from those wielding knives or aiming firearms..
Killing anyone today is not such a big thing by those who commit the crime..
because they know they will be protected in court by fancy lawyers..
Quote from: Scrumpy on April 30, 2024, 02:02:43 PMOur police are vulnerable.. Their lives are at risk just being out there..
There is little respect for them from those wielding knives or aiming firearms..
Killing anyone today is not such a big thing by those who commit the crime..
because they know they will be protected in court by fancy lawyers..
Absolutely true.
It is high time that this country made the necessary changes to overcome these tangible dangers which are overcoming us, especially in our capital city.
- Far more serious punishments for crimes such as this, including the restoration of hanging for murder.
- Far less support and excuse-making to help criminals who then quietly laugh behind their backs.
- Immediate removal of anyone here illegally when they commit any crime, even minor crimes.
- The arming of all police just as all other European countries presently do, along with the right to shoot to protect themselves and members of the public, and full support to defend them from the inevitable lawyers seeking to prosecute them for doing their duty.
- None of the above can possibly take place until we have a real government in power.
It was in Hainault, actually Essex as it used to be. A quiet little village going out towards Chigwell (when I was a boy 65 years ago). My cousin who lives there still, (80 and a cancer surviving widow) rung me a little while back. She's terrified to go out as this is not a new thing. Says Asian gangs of Sunni and Shia Muslims wage territory boundary warfare after dark in what is now as she describes it a "drug ridden shithole'.
Apparently the 'tube station' is a real no go area after 7pm.
Over here the Police used to enjoy 'potting' the bastards, but now even that useful action has been leaned on thanks to the 'Wokerati'. Still I'm told further South, it still occurs and most of the White population closes ranks and turns their back upon these 'happenings'. Any killings are hushed up before the BLM nutters get to know too much about it.
Quote from: Cassandra on April 30, 2024, 05:13:21 PMStill I'm told further South, it still occurs and most of the White population closes ranks and turns their back upon these 'happenings'. Any killings are hushed up before the BLM nutters get to know too much about it.
That sounds like a plan..
We should have an open shooting season.. Between January and November..
They can have Christmas off..
Quote from: Scrumpy on April 30, 2024, 07:01:33 PMThat sounds like a plan..
We should have an open shooting season.. Between January and November..
They can have Christmas off..
It seems Scrumps the 'Cops' Stateside are learning fast to just watch the different tribes & cults cull each other in a definite trend over the past year or so. As one said to me "why step in to stop em killing each other and then get blown out yourself for trying to break it up?, it wouldn't be the cops restraining Loyd in any way today" "Let the bastards do it for their selves"
The huge 'leaking' border in the south ensures the the 'gangs' are well manned and recruitment is no problem for the gang masters. It's 'reckoned' that they kill each other in their territorial internecine conflicts at about an 8 to 1 ratio v Whites & Cops, as so few white kids are in black gangs these days. Of course the 'Bill' are well numbered here with supreme marksmen and ex services snipers. They are also less likely to get nailed in the 'Red' States as against the wet, Democrat Blue ones, such as 'Woke a Cola' California and New York. We also benefit or suffer (depending on your viewpoint) from differing State rights and legislation.
Texas of course 'The Lone Star State', can pull out of the Union (secede) at any time (from 1845) and it's laws reflect the same individuality. If my family had not been here and the weather quite so humid South of the 'Mason Dixon line', I would have gone there. Great people and very pro 'Brit'.
Serious mental health issues seem to go untreated since 'Care in the Community' became the norm. Perhaps its time some politicians stopped pussyfooting around and made some hard decisions. Voices telling you to harm and/or kill? Locked ward in a psych hospital for the forseeable. Don't want to take the medication that stops these thoughts? Same hospital.
The public are at risk, anyone could be a target, look at the recent murders in Nottingham! Innocent people dead because people who have seriously twisted thoughts are free to do what they want.
Quote from: Cassandra on April 30, 2024, 05:13:21 PMOver here the Police used to enjoy 'potting' the bastards, but now even that useful action has been leaned on thanks to the 'Wokerati'. Still I'm told further South, it still occurs and most of the White population closes ranks and turns their back upon these 'happenings'. Any killings are hushed up before the BLM nutters get to know too much about it.
It seems Scrumps the 'Cops' Stateside are learning fast to just watch the different tribes & cults cull each other in a definite trend over the past year or so. As one said to me "why step in to stop em killing each other and then get blown out yourself for trying to break it up?, it wouldn't be the cops restraining Loyd in any way today" "Let the bastards do it for their selves"
An excellent situation, in my opinion. I could live with that.
I'm not generally anti-black or anti-muslim, in fact I have friends of both 'persuasions', but when there are criminals of either or both types and I see them getting everything they deserve, I'm sure I would pretend not to have seen anything.
April 30, 2024, 09:04:22 PMQuote from: GrannyMac on April 30, 2024, 07:53:42 PMSerious mental health issues seem to go untreated since 'Care in the Community' became the norm. Perhaps its time some politicians stopped pussyfooting around and made some hard decisions. Voices telling you to harm and/or kill? Locked ward in a psych hospital for the forseeable. Don't want to take the medication that stops these thoughts? Same hospital.
I also strongly agree with this.
It isn't that long ago when we had such 'hospitals' here, in fact I'm sure I remember hearing about them as a young man. I'm not sure exactly when the naive do-gooders decided to get rid of them. Around the 1960s perhaps, when so many other steps backward were taken in this country.
My ma in law was a psychiatric nursing sister, the hospital she worked in was well known in the area. It had different levels of wards, people with mild issues might be hospitalised short term, but there were long term secure patients. My cousin developed schizophrenia as a young woman, and was hospitalised there. She died there when she was still relatively young, her life outside of hospital was a car crash.
Quote from: GrannyMac on April 30, 2024, 10:10:54 PMMy ma in law was a psychiatric nursing sister, the hospital she worked in was well known in the area. It had different levels of wards, people with mild issues might be hospitalised short term, but there were long term secure patients. My cousin developed schizophrenia as a young woman, and was hospitalised there. She died there when she was still relatively young, her life outside of hospital was a car crash.
I think there are some quite different levels of 'mental health issues'.
Your cousin, I assume, was a perfectly safe patient though sadly she died young.
The sort of people I'm thinking of are dangerous people who should be kept well away from society for as long as it takes, for life if necessary.
I still believe in a life for a life, mental problems included.
Quote from: JBR on April 30, 2024, 10:23:45 PMI think there are some quite different levels of 'mental health issues'.
Your cousin, I assume, was a perfectly safe patient though sadly she died young.
The sort of people I'm thinking of are dangerous people who should be kept well away from society for as long as it takes, for life if necessary.
I still believe in a life for a life, mental problems included.
Who knows! If she had been left on her own (parents were dead) she might not have taken her medication, and the voices might have told her to commit some horrific act. Containment made sure it didn't happen. The murderer in Nottingham was known not to take his medication, he was being 'managed inthe community'. But he really wasn't.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-68080872#:~:text=He%20was%20prescribed%20anti%2Dpsychotic,his%20family%20members%20would%20die.
What a pity that policewoman wasn't armed then she could have shot that man dead .
Dangerous people are dangerous people mental problems nonwithstanding .
This man will never be allowed out in society again and will be a burden for decades .
Which begs the question what happens to the criminally insane ?
Who looks after them ?
What happens to geriatric murderers ?
Don't they become traffic wardens?
Quote from: muddy on May 01, 2024, 08:31:17 AMWhat a pity that policewoman wasn't armed then she could have shot that man dead .
Dangerous people are dangerous people mental problems nonwithstanding .
This man will never be allowed out in society again and will be a burden for decades
'This man will never be allowed out in society again'
Don't you believe it..
There is every chance that he will fool the authorities .. take his medicine.. find Christ..
In time he will be 'free to roam'..
Looks like a home grown problem for a change.
The first two taser firers seemed to be too far off but that policewoman made a good job of it. Well done her.
Quote from: Scrumpy on April 30, 2024, 02:02:43 PMOur police are vulnerable.. Their lives are at risk just being out there..
There is little respect for them from those wielding knives or aiming firearms..
Killing anyone today is not such a big thing by those who commit the crime..
because they know they will be protected in court by fancy lawyers..
I think there's a lot of truth in that, Scrumpy.
Quote from: Scrumpy on April 30, 2024, 02:02:43 PMKilling anyone today is not such a big thing by those who commit the crime..
because they know they will be protected in court by fancy lawyers.
Aided & abetted by gullible psychiatrists who actually believe the stupid "the voices told me do it" diminished responsibility excuses.
Quote from: Scrumpy on May 01, 2024, 09:28:12 AM'This man will never be allowed out in society again'
Don't you believe it..
There is every chance that he will fool the authorities .. take his medicine.. find Christ..
In time he will be 'free to roam'..
That is exactly what I believe will happen. We seem to have acquired an apologetic penal system which prefers to look kindly on criminals in the hope that they will change.
Most of them won't.
Murder is murder: ending someone's life. Does anyone have the right to do that?
The only solution is that if you murder someone, you in turn will be hanged and removed from the society you obviously have no respect for.
Apart from permanently removing such people from society, it will deter many from deciding go murder someone in the full knowledge that they are at the same time signing their own death warrant.
Why do the voices in their heads always tell them to kill someone vulnerable and defenceless ?
Can't remember whether it was on here or PF recently that I posted that the first responsibility of any government is to endure the safety of its citizens. The loss of control of immigration and there whereabouts is one clear example of how our politicians has failed.
Another is the increasing failure of law and order, and the related disregard that larger numbers have for our police and the justice system.
We can all cite examples of this, and indeed we do so.
What needs to be done is for someone to stop this pussyfooting around and therefore to get a proper grip on matters. If this means that some human rights have to be rescinded, then so be it. If it means that some lawyers have to retrain to take up conveyancibg instead, then so be it.
All I know is that we cannot continue with the current general direction for much longer.
May 01, 2024, 12:30:44 PMQuote from: muddy on May 01, 2024, 12:22:55 PMWhy do the voices in their heads always tell them to kill someone vulnerable and defenceless ?
Because those with voices in their heads which tell them to be pleasant and helpful aren't problematic nor newsworthy.
Quote from: dextrous63 on May 01, 2024, 12:28:59 PMCan't remember whether it was on here or PF recently that I posted that the first responsibility of any government is to endure the safety of its citizens. The loss of control of immigration and there whereabouts is one clear example of how our politicians has failed.
Another is the increasing failure of law and order, and the related disregard that larger numbers have for our police and the justice system.
We can all cite examples of this, and indeed we do so.
What needs to be done is for someone to stop this pussyfooting around and therefore to get a proper grip on matters. If this means that some human rights have to be rescinded, then so be it. If it means that some lawyers have to retrain to take up conveyancibg instead, then so be it.
I completely agree with all of those suggestions:
mass uncontrolled illegal immigration; failure of law and order because of lack of realistic punishments; lack of police capable of doing the job (i.e. not wimpy university graduates in philosophy, etc.), and instant judicial processes willing to impose stronger punishments which would deter crime.
In my humble opinion, only one political party in power could, and would, achieve these things.
No need for me to say who!
Quote from: muddy on May 01, 2024, 12:22:55 PMWhy do the voices in their heads always tell them to kill someone vulnerable and defenceless ?
Because they are not stupid enough to attack someone who might give them a going over..
My first thought was that this will be another black person. We haven't been given any details yet, but he actually looked white, with a possibility of being middle eastern !
Years ago most people hadn't heard of machetes, but whatever his colour there must be a way to stop swords and machetes being imported into UK.
Quote from: Alex on May 01, 2024, 02:46:37 PMMy first thought was that this will be another black person. We haven't been given any details yet, but he actually looked white, with a possibility of being middle eastern !
Years ago most people hadn't heard of machetes, but whatever his colour there must be a way to stop swords and machetes being imported into UK.
That will never happen. Such weapons are already here in large numbers, I am sure, and will continue to find their way here in the future.
The only way to cut crime of this sort is to impose far more severe punishments.
Some criticise Saudi Arabia for their punishments, for example: right hand removed publicly for theft; head removed publicly for murder, both done routinely every Friday in 'Chop Chop Square' in Riyadh.
Such crimes are almost unknown there for obvious reasons.
We can't do that here simply because of bleating do-gooders, who nevertheless whinge about crime being so commonplace!
It's easy to make a large blade nowadays. Don't really see tha banning imports would really make that much of a difference, truth be told.
After all, as Tabby pointed out on PF regarding the stabbing in Wales last week, it's legal to buy blunt "training" knives, which a few minutes on an angle grinder will easily become a proper lethal weapon.
I'd much rather we didn't have to resort to draconian sentencing/punishments. But I'd also rather people realise that it's their decision whether to avail themselves of a weapon, it's their decision to take it out and it's their decision to use it. So, ultimately, it's their decision to take the risk of getting the related punishment.
Finally, while I've still got it in mind, I don't really buy the plea of diminished responsibility which involves someone spending time, money and effort and clear pre-meditation to acquire a sword, machete etc.
Quote from: dextrous63 on May 01, 2024, 04:57:56 PMI'd much rather we didn't have to resort to draconian sentencing/punishments. But I'd also rather people realise that it's their decision whether to avail themselves of a weapon, it's their decision to take it out and it's their decision to use it. So, ultimately, it's their decision to take the risk of getting the related punishment.
Finally, while I've still got it in mind, I don't really buy the plea of diminished responsibility which involves someone spending time, money and effort and clear pre-meditation to acquire a sword, machete etc.
I believe that it is exactly because we
don't impose draconian sentencing and punishments that these people think nothing of availing themselves of, and using such weapons.
I too don't accept any plea of 'diminished responsibility' for those reasons. Whenever I hear of it being mentioned by a defence lawyer I know exactly what game they're playing: no moral belief, no concern about innocence or guilt, just money.
I think we're pretty much in agreement on this JB.
So the killer is Brazilian, not a white British as the papers had been hoping for.
Turns out he is an estate agent.
Quote from: Ashy on May 02, 2024, 11:03:30 PMTurns out he is an estate agent.
I knew he'd turn out to be a wrong 'un.... :grin:
Quote from: klondike on May 01, 2024, 09:33:54 AMLooks like a home grown problem for a change.
Fortunately he isn't, as Alex says, he's another Johnny Foreigner.
Yep. I was just going on the lack of an obvious tan....
I think the police-woman yesterday was magnificent, especially as another officer had his hand virtually chopped off in front of her. We should only keep Tazers for auxilliary use. All officers should be armed as they are here and throughout Europe. A crazed terrorist with a sword can charge a Tazered officer and still kill even if hits it's target. At close range like yesterday the maniac, who'd already killed a poor little chap needed stopping with a pistol powerful enough to kill with one round. Thus other officers and citizens are not at risk for the sake of appeasing the wokes. This is now a changed world, irreversibly and exponentially violent.
:upvote:
Quote from: klondike on May 03, 2024, 11:37:23 AMYep. I was just going on the lack of an obvious tan....
I thought the same as you when I first saw his photo.
Quote from: Diasi on May 03, 2024, 09:33:14 AMFortunately he isn't, as Alex says, he's another Johnny Foreigner.
I have never in all my years heard anyone speak the words Johnny Foreigner .
And still you haven't although by highlighting the words I can get my tablet to read them to me. Something I shall do before I complete this comment.
Sadly it was done in a whiney female American voice. Something to play with on another occasion to see if it can't do better.
Quote from: muddy on May 03, 2024, 08:28:22 PMI have never in all my years heard anyone speak the words Johnny Foreigner .
You haven't lived! 😉
Not long enough evidently .
A derogatory and outdated term .
Quote from: muddy on May 04, 2024, 05:14:38 AMNot long enough evidently .
A derogatory and outdated term .
Sorry, but why is it derogatory?
It's a sneering/ sarcastic word .
Used to make fun of people who are supposedly xenophobic .
I've been using the expression most of my life, but never with any derogatory intent nor implication, but as a generic reference. Has to be said that you're the first person who I've met who has attached an undertone to it. Not saying you're wrong, but am unsure🤷🏻�♂️
Quote from: Cassandra on May 03, 2024, 01:00:58 PMI think the police-woman yesterday was magnificent, especially as another officer had his hand virtually chopped off in front of her. We should only keep Tazers for auxilliary use. All officers should be armed as they are here and throughout Europe. A crazed terrorist with a sword can charge a Tazered officer and still kill even if hits it's target. At close range like yesterday the maniac, who'd already killed a poor little chap needed stopping with a pistol powerful enough to kill with one round. Thus other officers and citizens are not at risk for the sake of appeasing the wokes. This is now a changed world, irreversibly and exponentially violent.
She was! And you're right, it is a changed world. At least response teams in cases of violence should be armed, although even if they had been, the child wouldn't have been safe. Horrific.
Quote from: muddy on May 03, 2024, 08:28:22 PMI have never in all my years heard anyone speak the words Johnny Foreigner .
I say it regularly, although not as often as I used to. I've even typed the words in some of my posts here
I have only seen it on online forums
A Rowan Atkinson character called Johnny English was based around the Johnny Foreigner term.