I have just watched a documentary about the development of the TSR 2 aircraft.
In the 1960s, it was designed and built by the British Aircraft Corporation to, hopefully, replace the V-bombers which were nearing the end of their practical lifespan. Having said that, at least two of the V-bombers continued in use right up to the Falklands war.
The TSR 2 development went smoothly and, despite the usual problems experienced with any new aircraft design, proved very successful. Despite running over-budget, it looked very promising and would have been a world-beater, better than anything the Americans had under development.
Unfortunately, no sooner had a new Labour government been elected in 1964, the whole project was cancelled by Wilson.
What made this unforgivable, was that the several aircraft already produced and participating in test and development, were ordered to be destroyed and burnt to the ground! Presumably, this was to prevent any restoration of the project.
It has also been suggested that the Americans had a part in this cancellation for reasons of their own. Strangely, they continued to develop an equivalent of their own design, although less able, the F-111. No-one knows for certain whether the TSR 2 cancellation was down to American influence, or simply the Labour government deciding that they couldn't afford it.
Strangely, although the TSR 2 project went over-budget and may have been cancelled due to that, we now have HS2 continuing unabated despite being similarly over-budget to an even greater extent! 🙄
one of Labour's more disgraceful decisions
I remember the name but that's all not even what it was. I took zero interest in politics or even the news back then.
Quote from: Michael Rolls on August 11, 2023, 04:59:05 AMone of Labour's more disgraceful decisions
Yes, they seem to be quite good at that sort of thing.
I wonder what on earth they're going to do next year, assuming the predictions are all correct.
I'm not sure that we have many things worth giving away to foreign countries.
There is HS2, of course, but I'm pretty sure that no-one else in the slightest bit interested in it.
Perhaps they can sell the NHS to someone who can run it more efficiently!
I still can't forget, though, that once again we came up with a world-beating solution in the TSR2. A chance to again lead the world and which the idiot Wilson immediately ditched as soon as he was elected to PM.
I forget to mention an equally disgraceful decision by the Attlee Governemt. By the end of WW2, Germany and the UK had practaical jet powered fighter, of which Germany's ME262 was the better. The USA was just a little behind. The USSR was nowhere. They had developed a jet engine but it was pretty useless - then, in comradely cooperation, the Labour government supplied them with advance technology and a licence to build Rolls Royce Nene engines - then the best we had in service. The result? In 1950 the Korean war broke out - and the USSR supplied China and North Korea with Mig 15s, far superior to anything possessed by the allies until the USA rushed F-86 Sabres over.
I have always regarded the action of Atlee's government as traitorous.
If anyone is interested in the TSR2 saga, here are three videos which I found interesting and informative.
The first is the one I watched on the telly.
BAC TSR2 | The British Cold War strike and reconnaissance aircraft that was cancelled | Upscaled - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eitUCcDgr0c&ab_channel=DroneScapes)
This Cold War aircraft was perfect. Why was it cancelled? | TSR2 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCd0nkSmydM&ab_channel=ImperialWarMuseums)
The BAC TSR-2 – The Most Outstanding Military Aircraft to Never Serve - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PSvAoy88yU&ab_channel=DarkSkies)
Thanks. I will educate myself.
Be better than that fishing video :grin:
Quote from: klondike on August 11, 2023, 04:17:07 PMThanks. I will educate myself.
Be better than that fishing video :grin:
It made me happy again, thinking back to the good old days when we were respected the world over.
They had developed a jet engine but it was pretty useless - then, in comradely cooperation, the Labour government supplied them with advance technology and a licence to build Rolls Royce Nene engines - then the best we had in service. The result? In 1950 the Korean war broke out - and the USSR supplied China and North Korea with Mig 15s, far superior to anything possessed by the allies until the USA rushed F-86 Sabres over.
I have always regarded the action of Atlee's government as traitorous.
The problem is that all Labour are Communists in disguise.
Had Corbyn been elected as PM we'd have a Communist PM today.
Blair broke the Labour Party Communist political Mould & I regard him as only being interested in what he could get out of the job personally, which is why so many Human Rights laws were introduced, to the huge benefit of his Human Rights lawyer wife.
I watched the two shorter ones but baulked at the long one. It was a shame it got cancelled but I can understand why with the cost overrun seemingly out of control. The hardware was lost but I doubt that the expertise built was. That would have been used in later projects.
Quote from: Diasi on August 11, 2023, 07:34:07 PMThey had developed a jet engine but it was pretty useless - then, in comradely cooperation, the Labour government supplied them with advance technology and a licence to build Rolls Royce Nene engines - then the best we had in service. The result? In 1950 the Korean war broke out - and the USSR supplied China and North Korea with Mig 15s, far superior to anything possessed by the allies until the USA rushed F-86 Sabres over.
I have always regarded the action of Atlee's government as traitorous.
The problem is that all Labour are Communists in disguise.
Had Corbyn been elected as PM we'd have a Communist PM today.
Blair broke the Labour Party Communist political Mould & I regard him as only being interested in what he could get out of the job personally, which is why so many Human Rights laws were introduced, to the huge benefit of his Human Rights lawyer wife.
I agree. The Labour party has a long history of making a reet mess of things.
I sometimes wonder how much better this country would have been if they had never been elected.
Then, of course, along came this latest Tory shower!
Quote from: JBR on August 11, 2023, 09:53:16 PMI agree. The Labour party has a long history of making a reet mess of things.
I sometimes wonder how much better this country would have been if they had never been elected.
Then, of course, along came this latest Tory shower!
Well, although the current Tories are a useless shower, never forget that the illegal immigration / small boats / no English people being employed on the land, are all problems caused by the 1997 New Labour government.
They caused the illegal war with Iraq which destablised the Middle East.
They opened the borders to the whole of the EU which gave UK farmers an endless supply of £2 an hour workers.
All true.
The thing is though we have had Conservative governments since 2010 and nothing has been fixed. I think they must have caught something nasty when they were bedfellows with the LibDems.
Quote from: klondike on August 11, 2023, 10:40:10 PMAll true.
The thing is though we have had Conservative governments since 2010 and nothing has been fixed. I think they must have caught something nasty when they were bedfellows with the LibDems.
Just as New Labour were dubbed Tory Lite, the current Tories are LibDem Lite.
well, they certainly aren't Tories!
Quote from: Diasi on August 11, 2023, 10:29:04 PMWell, although the current Tories are a useless shower, never forget that the illegal immigration / small boats / no English people being employed on the land, are all problems caused by the 1997 New Labour government.
They caused the illegal war with Iraq which destablised the Middle East.
They opened the borders to the whole of the EU which gave UK farmers an endless supply of £2 an hour workers.
Yes indeed. BLiar, of course. In my opinion, our worst PM ever, and he's still grinning all over our TV screens.
Quote from: JBR on August 10, 2023, 07:39:25 PMI have just watched a documentary about the development of the TSR 2 aircraft.
In the 1960s, it was designed and built by the British Aircraft Corporation to, hopefully, replace the V-bombers which were nearing the end of their practical lifespan. Having said that, at least two of the V-bombers continued in use right up to the Falklands war.
The TSR 2 development went smoothly and, despite the usual problems experienced with any new aircraft design, proved very successful. Despite running over-budget, it looked very promising and would have been a world-beater, better than anything the Americans had under development.
Unfortunately, no sooner had a new Labour government been elected in 1964, the whole project was cancelled by Wilson.
What made this unforgivable, was that the several aircraft already produced and participating in test and development, were ordered to be destroyed and burnt to the ground! Presumably, this was to prevent any restoration of the project.
It has also been suggested that the Americans had a part in this cancellation for reasons of their own. Strangely, they continued to develop an equivalent of their own design, although less able, the F-111. No-one knows for certain whether the TSR 2 cancellation was down to American influence, or simply the Labour government deciding that they couldn't afford it.
Strangely, although the TSR 2 project went over-budget and may have been cancelled due to that, we now have HS2 continuing unabated despite being similarly over-budget to an even greater extent! 🙄
'General Dynamics' are a very black company indeed to contend with!
Labour governments don't decide they can't afford things. They decide that they don't approve of them.
October 19, 2023, 08:39:57 PMQuote from: JBR on August 12, 2023, 10:02:04 AMBLiar, of course. In my opinion, our worst PM ever
He is coming up against some strong contenders for that honour though.
anyone else notice that Liz Truss resigned as PM a year ago today?
Now there there is a notable PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Records_of_prime_ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom
Spanned two reigns.
Liz Truss holds the record for the shortest unequivocal term of office, at 49 days. She was appointed by Elizabeth II at Balmoral Castle on 6 September 2022, and officially resigned as prime minister to Charles III at Buckingham Palace on 25 October 2022. George Canning holds the record for the second shortest term in office, dying in office on 8 August 1827, 119 days after his appointment.