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Main boards => General Discussion => Topic started by: JBR on August 24, 2022, 05:58:04 PM

Title: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: JBR on August 24, 2022, 05:58:04 PM
If you drive and are considering, or in need of a new car, would you buy an electric car especially as many manufacturers are no longer selling internal combustion cars?
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: klondike on August 24, 2022, 06:16:36 PM
I couldn't as I have no driveway so could only charge one on public chargers which while dubbed fast chargers are still a lot slower than filling a fuel tank. The reduced fuel bill is offset to a degree by the high initial cost of the vehicle.

My son has one and the acceleration is brisk indeed. It has lots of "driver assist" features which occasionally try to kill him while the rather conservative safety margins can lead to quite a few angry beeps. He still has his diesel and uses that for holidays as he prefers rural locations and public chargers would be too inconvenient. If holiday lets start offering chargers the electic may become practical.

I don't think there is a cat in hell's chance that the required charging infrastucture will be in place in time. Petrol and diesel are very energy dense. His car battery is 73kWh and the charger 7Kw.
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: JBR on August 24, 2022, 06:22:06 PM
Thanks klondike.
I agree.  Looking around at how many cars are on the roads, and that most of them are ICE vehicles, I cannot see the government's diktat being feasible in only eight years.

If push came to shove, and they stuck by their word, Marge and I would be looking for a good second-hand car near the time and I'm sure that the other threats of filling stations disappearing is very unlikely.
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: Ashy on August 24, 2022, 07:40:37 PM
For private motoring an electric car is not practical so I don't think I will require one.
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: GrannyMac on August 24, 2022, 08:25:37 PM
My son in law has an electric car. Very beneficial tax wise, he runs a business. No road tax, cheaper than petrol to run.
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: JBR on August 24, 2022, 08:41:57 PM
Quote from: GrannyMac on August 24, 2022, 08:25:37 PMMy son in law has an electric car. Very beneficial tax wise, he runs a business. No road tax, cheaper than petrol to run.
Yes, cheaper to run, but I didn't know they don't have to pay road tax!
I think the two disadvantages are the lack of range and the loss in value after several years when the battery needs replacing.
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: Raven on August 24, 2022, 09:27:14 PM
No. No. No.
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: Alex on August 24, 2022, 10:25:06 PM
Even if I could afford one I wouldn't !
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: GrannyMac on August 24, 2022, 11:18:09 PM
Quote from: JBR on August 24, 2022, 08:41:57 PMYes, cheaper to run, but I didn't know they don't have to pay road tax!
I think the two disadvantages are the lack of range and the loss in value after several years when the battery needs replacing.

Exempt as zero emissions. As a car bought through his company, its very tax efficient.  https://www.saffery.com/insights/publications/the-tax-benefits-of-electric-vehicles/
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: Diasi on August 24, 2022, 11:39:26 PM
Quote from: JBR on August 24, 2022, 08:41:57 PMYes, cheaper to run, but I didn't know they don't have to pay road tax!
I think the two disadvantages are the lack of range and the loss in value after several years when the battery needs replacing.
That's where the scam kicks in, of course the tyres of an electic car do as much road wear as the tyres on a petrol / diesel car but they changed the name from Road Fund to Vehicle Excise Duty so no one, in theory, is paying for the maintenance of the roads, but in practice the ICE driver pays.

It costs £thousands when the battery needs replacing at £87 per kWh (2021 price), plus labour when the car has to be virtually stripped down.
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: klondike on August 24, 2022, 11:49:44 PM
Most people buying them now will be changing them before the battery capacity warranty runs out. What it will do is destroy the second hand market and price cars out of the reach of the oiks. 

Our great grandchildren will find themselves in a similar world to our parents or grandparents where only the rich own their own transport and houses too come to that. The question for me is will this be a side effect or a part of the actual policy.

For me car ownership spelled freedom and I made damned sure all my children got their driving licences as soon as possible and their own wheels too.
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: GrannyMac on August 25, 2022, 06:50:13 AM
Many of our children and grandchildren could do well via inheritance.  Our generation was the first to have a majority of home owners.  Unless we are in the unfortunate minority who has to pay for a care home, or dislike our offspring so much we leave everything to a donkey sanctuary, then they should benefit eventually.
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: Michael Rolls on August 25, 2022, 07:09:14 AM
I have (RELUCTANTLY) a self regenerating, or whatever they call it, hybrid, because what I really wanted was no longer made (petrol, automatic Mondeo hatchback which was this car's predecessor. It cost £8,000 more than what I wanted would have cost, so even doing 50 mpg that represents a lot of miles even at today's prices.
Pure electric, as things stand, would be totally impractical for me; living in a bungalow with plenty of space I could install a home charger - but why the hell should I go to all that trouble and expense, especially when a journey of any length needs military planning!
Mike
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: Ashy on August 25, 2022, 07:34:04 AM
I wonder how long battery vehicles will be free of road tax and fuel taxes. I'd guess at Autumn 2024 after the next election.
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: Michael Rolls on August 25, 2022, 07:36:59 AM
well, the government is going to have to find a way to replace the lost revenue from road tax and fuel duty
Mike
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: Ashy on August 25, 2022, 07:52:35 AM
I suppose they could just keep putting up the tax on proper fuel and/or parking. Some people are talking of road pricing which makes every road a toll road. This won't be a free country much longer.
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: klondike on August 25, 2022, 09:32:39 AM
The technology is pretty much in place for road pricing. Pioneered by your friend and his with his pollution zone or whatever it is called and the various toll roads. Plus of course the surveillance society ANPR and speed cameras all over the place. I imagine that they will just slap it on top of existing car tax in a further attempt to price the oiks out of personal transport other than push bikes (which they were talking about regulating (ie taxing) too I saw mentioned in a recent thread. Watch out for pavement fund taxes on trainers some time soon. They got a taste of locking folks up with lockdown and probably enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: JBR on August 25, 2022, 11:43:17 AM
Encouraging, or forcing, everyone to use an electric car is frought with problems.
They are expensive to buy, expensive to replace when the battery is a few years old, almost impossible to sell on as second-hand, heavier than ICE cars so more tyre wear.  
Then, of course, the other known problems: limited range, long charging times, shortage of (working) charging points, and the other obvious forthcoming problem: we have already been promised power cuts this winter as the electricity infrastructure is going to struggle - this, too, is bound to impact on those who have had the 'foresight' to buy an electric car!

Many people (rich people) have bought them now, but I am sure that they'll regret their decision when the penny eventually drops.

Assuming that the government decides to stick to its guns, we are going to revert to a society which relies on public transport (I assume they will also ban ICE buses), cycles or walks.  A shame about all the old people who are not fit enough to do either of the latter.

I suppose the next logical, and eventual step would be for people to buy a horse and a trap or cart to provide for their transport needs.  "I'm just popping down to the supermarket where I know they have hitching posts for the horse.  I shouldn't be gone above a few hours."  Going back to the 19th century?
I suppose if you have a garage it would be a suitable place to keep your horse.
I can't believe that this has never crossed the minds of the politicians and their greenies who have had this bright idea.
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: Ashy on August 25, 2022, 03:44:52 PM
No mate, they think we're going to hire a zip car. I'm not.
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: Countryman on August 25, 2022, 04:41:14 PM
I reckon in years to come, today's electric cars will be compared to the Sinclair C5

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Sinclair_C5_with_high_vis_mast.jpg)
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: Michael Rolls on August 25, 2022, 08:55:15 PM
and that went well!!
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: klondike on September 01, 2022, 09:16:17 AM
This suggests that the enormous boost in the cost of home energy means electric cars will soon be costing more per mile than diesel and already do if using commercial fast chargers rather than home charging.

https://dailysceptic.org/2022/08/31/electric-car-journeys-to-cost-more-than-diesel-by-january/
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: Raven on September 01, 2022, 09:47:28 AM
Still NO! [2030] 
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: JBR on September 01, 2022, 11:11:04 AM
Quote from: klondike on September 01, 2022, 09:16:17 AMThis suggests that the enormous boost in the cost of home energy means electric cars will soon be costing more per mile than diesel and already do if using commercial fast chargers rather than home charging.

https://dailysceptic.org/2022/08/31/electric-car-journeys-to-cost-more-than-diesel-by-january/
Absolutely.
If and when our new PM should (though unlikely) stick to her promises and begin to build nuclear power stations (especially our own RR SMRs), after several years electricity might become more reliable and a little cheaper.
Of course, as soon as enough idiots (er, sorry, people) invest in EVs, electricity will become taxed more highly just as they do for petrol and diesel.
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: Diasi on September 01, 2022, 03:28:18 PM
With only the requirement of a slight ability to see beyond the trees, the chaos that will, in my opinion, be caused by electric cars is blindingly obvious.

Take a typical bank holiday with tens of thousands of cars on the road making a 300 mile journey. At the moment 90% are petrol / diesel & will have their tanks filled for the forthcoming journey & will go from A to B without needing to be refuelled. Those that do will take about 5 minutes to be refuelled.

The average EV will need to be recharged after about 200 miles & it will take at least an hour which isn't a problem with so few on the roads.

Fast forward to when 90% of cars are EVs, the thousands of ICE cars that didn't need to refuel or only took 5 minutes to refuel, will now be replaced with thousands of EV's all needing to be recharged during the journey & all taking at least an hour.
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: JBR on September 01, 2022, 03:39:41 PM
Quote from: Diasi on September 01, 2022, 03:28:18 PMWith only the requirement of a slight ability to see beyond the trees, the chaos that will, in my opinion, be caused by electric cars is blindingly obvious.

Take a typical bank holiday with tens of thousands of cars on the road making a 300 mile journey. At the moment 90% are petrol / diesel & will have their tanks filled for the forthcoming journey & will go from A to B without needing to be refuelled. Those that do will take about 5 minutes to be refuelled.

The average EV will need to be recharged after about 200 miles & it will take at least an hour which isn't a problem with so few on the roads.

Fast forward to when 90% of cars are EVs, the thousands of ICE cars that didn't need to refuel or only took 5 minutes to refuel, will now be replaced with thousands of EV's all needing to be recharged during the journey & all taking at least an hour.
Exactly my opinion too, but can EVs be recharged in only one hour?  I thought it took longer for a full recharge.
Another question, to which I don't know the answer, is if EVs are charged or partially charged rapidly and frequently, would that affect the lifetime of their batteries?
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: Alex on September 01, 2022, 11:10:40 PM
I get peed off when the electric toothbrush battery goes flat, no warning.  Not forgetting the bloody stick hoover, that packs up just when you need it. So no, I won't be getting an electric car.
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: Diasi on September 01, 2022, 11:23:23 PM
Quote from: JBR on September 01, 2022, 03:39:41 PMExactly my opinion too, but can EVs be recharged in only one hour?  I thought it took longer for a full recharge.
Another question, to which I don't know the answer, is if EVs are charged or partially charged rapidly and frequently, would that affect the lifetime of their batteries?
Rapid chargers can do it in an hour, with some of the super rapid chargers taking 30 minutes but it knocks hell out of the batteries, despite what the enthuisiasts may say.

https://bit.ly/3Rrhqnp
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: klondike on September 02, 2022, 09:53:01 AM
Quote from: Alex on September 01, 2022, 11:10:40 PMI get peed off when the electric toothbrush battery goes flat, no warning.  
My toothbrush flashes red when you finish brushing if it needs charging. I wouldn't swap it out for a diesel model anyway  :grin:
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: Raven on September 02, 2022, 11:52:10 AM
 :hmm:  :embarrassed:  :shh:  :wink:  :worried: 303606626_5510156592405146_8990823925420490143_n.jpg
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: JBR on September 02, 2022, 12:31:30 PM
Heavily increased road taxes applied to all, including EVs, AND
heavily increased electricity charges for ALL, not just EVs.

I think the only eventual solution would be for everyone to refuse to buy EVs or buy a bicycle, as they are the only thing completely free to use!
Shame about the elderly and those unable to use bicycles!
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: klondike on September 02, 2022, 12:37:27 PM
In the unlikely event that they continue with this idiotic policy of stopping sales of ice cars then they will start charging by miles driven for sure. 

I cannot see any chance that the infrastructure will be in place in time plus as energy prices rocket and the cost per mile between electric and diesel narrows or even goes in favour of diesel sales of electric cars will tank removing the incentive to provide the infrastructure.

This is another example of Net Zero bullshit that will not work.
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: Ashy on September 02, 2022, 09:28:46 PM
There will probably be an anarchist group called "Stop Electricity" going round smashing things up by then too.
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: JBR on September 02, 2022, 09:39:12 PM
Quote from: Ashy on September 02, 2022, 09:28:46 PMThere will probably be an anarchist group called "Stop Electricity" going round smashing things up by then too.
I'd try to convince them that the best way to 'stop electricity' would be to climb up an electricity pylon and pull one of the cables down.
Of course, I'd tell them to be careful and use a long metal rod to keep themselves well away from that dangerous electricity.
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: Michael Rolls on September 02, 2022, 09:40:31 PM
what a good wheeze!
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: klondike on September 02, 2022, 09:58:54 PM
:grin:  :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: Raven on September 03, 2022, 01:41:44 PM
Don't know if this is true, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is. It has the ring of idiot politicians about it.  [2110]

(https://i.postimg.cc/Wt9Bg2rT/FB-IMG-1662208486197.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Wt9Bg2rT)
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: klondike on September 03, 2022, 02:34:40 PM
https://fortune.com/2022/09/01/california-electric-cars-charge-newsom/
Title: Re: Would you buy an electric car?
Post by: JBR on September 03, 2022, 03:19:37 PM
Well, they say that where America goes, Britain follows!