Interesting court sentences

[GrannyMac]

I heard about two illegal immigrants this morning on GB News (I think) who'd been fighting with Gendarmes before setting sail for the UK. I've not seen anything in the news about it, but this is a report from the Home Office.

They were arrested, and found guilty of entering the UK illegally, and are now in prison. Why not all the others?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/migrants-involved-in-violence-against-french-officers-jailed

[Scrumpy]

How quickly the government moved when involving the French..
How slowly they move when involving their own country..
 I expect the criminals are tucked up in a nice warm cell.. Soon to be released on British soil.. Probably housed and re-united with the rest of their family.. all 30 of them.. Mustn't forget gran and granddad.. and long lost uncles..

[klondike]

I'm guessing because there is a French criminal charge and they'll be able to deport them. Don't knock it.

Mind you that isn't what the article says.

[Alex]

I don't understand why they weren't returned to France to stand trial there, the crime was committed on French soil after all.  Now they've got 2 years in a UK jail and after a year they'll no doubt be realised into UK society - as if we haven't got enough of them !  Where's Cass when you'vve got a question ?   

[Cassandra]

I heard about two illegal immigrants this morning on GB News (I think) who'd been fighting with Gendarmes before setting sail for the UK. I've not seen anything in the news about it, but this is a report from the Home Office.

They were arrested, and found guilty of entering the UK illegally, and are now in prison. Why not all the others?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/migrants-involved-in-violence-against-french-officers-jailed

Because:

1) Both immigrants are identifiable.

2) Importantly they were previously convicted of Crimes and served time for the offences, which would doubtless denied re-entry to the UK within some remit or other condition. Unforbidden re-entry therefore is a 'statute offence' punishable by prescriptive sentence.

[GrannyMac]

I'm guessing because there is a French criminal charge and they'll be able to deport them. Don't knock it.

Mind you that isn't what the article says.

Exactly.  They weren't arrested or charged with assault, but with entering the UK illegally.

I understand what you say Cassandra, but 'entering illegally'? Could it be used as a precedent? 🤞🏼

[klondike]

Isn't that what they are trying to put in the legislation? Making coming on a dinghy illegal and making them unable to apply for asylum. Not sure where that is right now but you can bet your life there will be enough appeals on various points to make it unenforceable 

[GrannyMac]

Yes, its in the Illegal Migration Bill. This came out earlier this year, anyone know when it will be implemented? 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/illegal-migration-bill-factsheets/illegal-migration-bill-overarching-factsheet#:~:text=The%20Illegal%20Migration%20Bill%20will,asylum%20claim%20will%20be%20considered.

[Alex]

I don't think I've grasped this ! why werent they extradited to France ?

[klondike]

Because we are bloody muggins

[Cassandra]

Exactly.  They weren't arrested or charged with assault, but with entering the UK illegally.

I understand what you say Cassandra, but 'entering illegally'? Could it be used as a precedent? 🤞🏼

No they can't claim 'Asylum' as they have breached the terms of their original sentence.

Therefore they have 're'-entered illegally. The sea of people washing up most days enter as 'Asylum Seekers' using both the Refugee Convention' of 1951 and the Geneva Refugee Act to claim protection.

The action of the two firstly mentioned is specific to their original sentences and has no 'locus standi' in law to act as a 'class' judgement to fresh applicants not in anyway aligned to either them or their circumstances of subsequent sentence.

Legally Apples and Oranges you see.

September 12, 2023, 05:15:17 PM

I don't think I've grasped this ! why werent they extradited to France ?

Because the crime of re-entry was committed in and against the jurisdiction of the British State and its courts sentence which had both been breached

France has nothing to do with it.

[Alex]

Legally Apples and Oranges you see.

September 12, 2023, 05:15:17 PM
Because the crime of re-entry was committed in and against the jurisdiction of the British State and its courts sentence which had both been breached

France has nothing to do with it.

So they won't have the fact they beat up French policemen on their records ?

[JBR]

I see this rather differently.

My guess is that our stupid government has given them a short prison sentence to impress the French, who apparently attempted to stop them leaving their shores.
Are we hoping that we've encouraged the French to do more to stop them setting sail?

I'm absolutely sure that we have achieved nothing by doing this.

They will continue to come, with French keeping their 'blind eyes' strategy.

Still no true deterrence on our part.

[Cassandra]

So they won't have the fact they beat up French policemen on their records ?

Interesting point, but within the strictures of law no.  What they were arrested for in Britain, in detail is not disclosed;

They cannot however be arrested/detained under the jurisdiction of article 44 of the Istanbul Convention for "extraterritorial jurisdiction" as they are not UK Citizens in the first place.

They can and should be immediately exported back to France, except that they have offences to answer for connected to the breach of their original sentencing here in the UK. (illegal entry). So we will pay for their detention and further re-sentence, then hopefully deport them to France for their pending assault charge over there, ie threatening with a weapon etc etc, after they have served a further 6 months or so here.

In reality they'll do the six moths in UK clink, then disappear into the ether upon dispersal from HMP, as the authorities are not joined up enough to inform the Gendarmes to be waiting inside their detaining prison to escort them back to France for trial. By that time 'Care4Calais / Amnesty International will have mounted a million Euro lawsuit aimed at protecting these two affable and obviously altruistic individuals from any more beastly UK 'justice'!

[Michael Rolls]

w are SO unkind!