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Main boards => General Discussion => Topic started by: Michael Rolls on March 04, 2022, 10:35:47 AM

Title: Electricity
Post by: Michael Rolls on March 04, 2022, 10:35:47 AM
Just had a gleeful letter from SSE telling me my costs will rise from 1/4/22 - surprise, surprise. The cost this year £3,769.51. Cost next year, assuming the same level of usage- and I can't see it changing - £5074.86. That's an increase of 34.6%. What really riles me is that the daily standing charge has risen from 27.48p to 50.14, or by 84.46%!
WHY? the standing charge -  as I understand it, is effectively an admin charge to cover the cost of actually providing the service - how can that have changed, never mind very nearly doubling!
Mike
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: crabbyob on March 04, 2022, 10:48:55 AM
the Govt needs to be examining the power companies books very closely, and if not
then why not???
of course if your bill doubles then so does your VAT charge.... excuse my French...bastards, all of them
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Michael Rolls on March 04, 2022, 10:55:22 AM
I must admit to seething over that standing charge, but I know damn well it would be a waste of effort - and a raising of blood pressure - to moan to company. I am already on their lowest tariff.
Mike
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: klondike on March 04, 2022, 12:20:42 PM
Maybe you should consider if you really need such a large energy inefficient house.
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Raven on March 04, 2022, 12:28:14 PM
I down sized my house 20 years ago. I was rattling around by myself in a big family house. I loved my new wee bungalow, only downside was the great big garden. I liked working in the the garden but this was just too much for me on my own, plus I was still working and out at night teaching the Linedancing. My son stays in my house often while I'm up at the farm and he enjoys doing the garden, it's his now not mine.
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Michael Rolls on March 04, 2022, 12:34:41 PM
Quote from: klondike on March 04, 2022, 12:20:42 PM
Maybe you should consider if you really need such a large energy inefficient house.
No way - this is where we were happy, Unless I have to go into a home, the only way I am leaving is in a box. The fact that, under protest, I can afford these swingeing increases, doesn't mean that everybody can. Whether the degree of price increase for the product is justified, clearly I have no way of knowing, but the increase in the standing charge? How on earth can that be justified?
Mike
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Jacqueline on March 04, 2022, 01:07:38 PM
Mike, My Standing Charge is now 48.15 when the unit of electric is 28.289.  why has the standing charge gone up so much in relation to the electricity cost which I can understand as they are paying more for it? something is very wrong here, they say their pricing is clear, the hell it is.  Smoke and mirrors again.

As for you moving out of your large bungalow Mike, its your home, you have all your stuff around you, why should you move if you don't want to.  We are trying to sell our place, people assume I am downsizing, I want the same space in a more convenient location. I have a lifetime collection of nice furniture and stuff, I am not a horder but do need space to display it all.  If it all went I would be misrable there would be no point I  would be just sitting here waiting to die, Ok if you can do it but like you I can't, its my home I have paid for it I intend to live in it with all my stuff, the kids can flog it all when I am gone.   
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: klondike on March 04, 2022, 01:10:07 PM
I wouldn't move either so I undersand that. I think come April there is going to be one hell of a row brewing on VAT on fuel and green subsidies. Plus we are sitting on plenty of our own gas that isn't being extracted. Coal too come to that. I think Putin may have put a big spanner in our governments net zero plans which seem to rely heavily on gas imports for when the wind don't blow.
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Michael Rolls on March 04, 2022, 01:12:14 PM
Quote from: Jacqueline on March 04, 2022, 01:07:38 PM
Mike, My Standing Charge is now 48.15 when the unit of electric is 28.289.  why has the standing charge gone up so much in relation to the electricity cost which I can understand as they are paying more for it? something is very wrong here, they say their pricing is clear, the hell it is.  Smoke and mirrors again.

As for you moving out of your large bungalow Mike, its your home, you have all your stuff around you, why should you move if you don't want to.  We are trying to sell our place, people assume I am downsizing, I want the same space in a more convenient location. I have a lifetime collection of nice furniture and stuff, I am not a horder but do need space to display it all.  If it all went I would be misrable there would be no point I  would be just sitting here waiting to die, Ok if you can do it but like you I can't, its my home I have paid for it I intend to live in it with all my stuff, the kids can flog it all when I am gone.
My feelings exactly.
Mike
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: GrannyMac on March 04, 2022, 02:20:17 PM
And I will happily move at some point.  After being unable to persuade my mother to move, she ended up in a nursing home.  She had lived in the same flat for over fifty years. We've moved several times, and I was determined not to get too attached to bricks and mortar. I have a few things I'd hate to part with, but they'd fit into a small flat.  Less cleaning, cheaper to heat and maintain.  What's not to like. 😉
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Alex on March 04, 2022, 02:34:48 PM
I agree with GM.   I don't want to move but I know leaving this large, dusty, old house would make sense financially and 'housework' wise   :smiley: and  I don't need 3 bedrooms or a dining room.  Lots of memories here for me too, but the memories are in my heart, not in the bricks and mortar.
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Michael Rolls on March 04, 2022, 02:39:09 PM
As I look around - at my books (some 500 or so), at my pictures (85), at Veronica's Hummel collection, at her crystal collection, at her wall hangings, at my files, at the wine racks - it is a large bungalow, but only just about large enough! No, for me, somewhere smaller would be a prison
Mike
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Michael Rolls on March 04, 2022, 02:43:58 PM
Oh, and I forgot - because it is second nature to me - to say that I couldn't bear to live somewhere Veronica never knew.
Mike
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: klondike on March 04, 2022, 04:21:26 PM
Quote from: Michael Rolls on March 04, 2022, 02:39:09 PM
As I look around - at my books (some 500 or so),
The books you said just recently you cannot easily read any more so use a Kindle instead.
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Michael Rolls on March 04, 2022, 04:27:59 PM
Many of my books are not available on Kindle - also many of them are on fairly esoteric subjects unlikely to ever be on Kindle. Hopefully, one day my arm will be better and I will once again be able to hold large, heavy books. As an example - I have about 20 books devoted to WW2 fighter a/c alone, some of them fairly technical, including Air Ministry (as it was then) Pilot's Notes.
Mike
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: klondike on March 04, 2022, 04:36:06 PM
I too have a number of books that I doubt would be on Kindle. Even if they were the ones with lots of illustrations and pictures wouldn't work well on one.

If you want to read them again you need the sort of thing vicars and the like have for holding books at a decent reading angle. I forget the name but like a lectern that sits on a table rather than on a tall stand.
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Michael Rolls on March 04, 2022, 04:43:27 PM
Quote from: klondike on March 04, 2022, 04:36:06 PM
I too have a number of books that I doubt would be on Kindle. Even if they were the ones with lots of illustrations and pictures wouldn't work well on one.

If you want to read them again you need the sort of thing vicars and the like have for holding books at a decent reading angle. I forget the name but like a lectern that sits on a table rather than on a tall stand.
What a good idea - thanks - I'll have a look
Mike
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Scrumpy on March 04, 2022, 04:46:15 PM
I live in a 3 bedroom house built by me and Sam.. Some great memories here.. My porch walls have writings on them that go back a few years. My brother.. sister ..Dennis that could never be replaced..
Sometimes I get alarmed by the garden.. even though it is small.. Sometimes I think 'Sod it..I'll move'.. Then the sun shines and my decking area with long wooden table , hand painted chairs and sweet smelling roses tell me that I am happy just to be here..
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Scrumpy on March 04, 2022, 04:47:41 PM



... on the other hand..If I won a substantial amount of money I would move..
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Michael Rolls on March 04, 2022, 05:27:29 PM
No matter what - I would never move willingly. This is where we were happy more than anywhere else. Veronica and I had both suffered unhappy first marriages - coming up here, we were able to forget all the bad times
Mike
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Diasi on March 05, 2022, 09:33:08 AM
Quote from: Michael Rolls on March 04, 2022, 10:35:47 AM
Just had a gleeful letter from SSE telling me my costs will rise from 1/4/22 - surprise, surprise. The cost this year £3,769.51. Cost next year, assuming the same level of usage- and I can't see it changing - £5074.86. That's an increase of 34.6%. What really riles me is that the daily standing charge has risen from 27.48p to 50.14, or by 84.46%!
WHY? the standing charge -  as I understand it, is effectively an admin charge to cover the cost of actually providing the service - how can that have changed, never mind very nearly doubling!
Mike

As I posted previously, the standing charge isn't related to the cost of providing the service to a consumer, if you look at the various tariffs you'll see that the standing charges are linked to a particular tariff.

It doesn't cost any more to deliver expensive electricity than it does to deliver cheap electricity.
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Michael Rolls on March 05, 2022, 09:34:44 AM
In that case it makes even less sense to me
Mike
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Diasi on March 05, 2022, 09:37:56 AM
Quote from: Michael Rolls on March 05, 2022, 09:34:44 AM
In that case it makes even less sense to me
Mike

Well of course all standing charges are a scam, when you fill up with 50 quid's worth of petrol you pay 50 quid, you don't pay 50 quid plus 5 quid for getting the petrol to the pump.

If the standing charge was genuinely to cover the cost of providing the service it'd be more or less a fixed price & would only increase occasionally by small amounts.
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Michael Rolls on March 05, 2022, 09:42:52 AM
Yes - that's what I had presumed - clearly wrongly
Mike
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Diasi on March 05, 2022, 09:45:20 AM
Quote from: klondike on March 04, 2022, 01:10:07 PM
I think Putin may have put a big spanner in our governments net zero plans which seem to rely heavily on gas imports for when the wind don't blow.

When the wind didn't blow & the ship wouldn't go, they got Carter the farter to start her.
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: crabbyob on March 05, 2022, 02:13:38 PM
so how can we not pay the 'standing charges?
i once got a letter from the bank offering overdraft facilities, then the final sentence informed me £12 had been deducted from my account for this service...
i was waiting for the bank doors to open ... and frightened a poor girl to death, but the £12 was back in my account before i left the bank...
i wonder how many more £12 they 'harvested' that day and in the days and years that followed...
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: klondike on March 05, 2022, 07:13:39 PM
There were tariffs avialable with no standing charge and possibly still are, They are aimed at low usage because the unit costs are considerably higher. Tariffs are deliberately made complex to confuse people. There are websites that will take your annual usage (should be shown on your bills), run the calculations on all availabale tariffs and advise you of your personal cheapest. If you switch supplier through such sites they will give you some of the money they get from the energy company for facilitating the switch to them. Right now no switches make sense as no tariffs on offer are lower than the Ofgem cap.

Example site doing this which I have used for years  https://clubs.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub/login

Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Diasi on March 06, 2022, 08:26:32 AM
The whole pricing structure & sales pitches of the energy market is a legalised scam.

There is no such thing as 100% renewable energy because the grid supplies energy from whatever source is fed into the grid, so our 100% renewable electricity tariff could be 100% gas or 100% nuclear or a mix of all three depending on what source the power generation is using at any point in time.

Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Cassandra on March 06, 2022, 02:42:42 PM
Quote from: Diasi on March 06, 2022, 08:26:32 AM
The whole pricing structure & sales pitches of the energy market is a legalised scam.

There is no such thing as 100% renewable energy because the grid supplies energy from whatever source is fed into the grid, so our 100% renewable electricity tariff could be 100% gas or 100% nuclear or a mix of all three depending on what source the power generation is using at any point in time.

I completely agree. "Nett zero" is like everlasting mortality, it sounds too good to be true - because it is.

Over here (North East Michigan) I'm paying (updated) the equivalent of 0.68 p per therm for gas and 12.21p for electricity. Some States are also as much as 25% cheaper due to distribution costs and multiplicity of supply sources. Standing charges don't exist.

Former Vice President and 'New World Order' fanatic 'John Kerry' says we are 'missing' climate change relevance by concentrating on the deflection of the Ukrainian conflict! Still at least he admits we should avoid a nuclear whizz-bang, as it would melt the icecaps. Its good to know he keeps a sense of proportion.
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Michael Rolls on March 06, 2022, 03:19:46 PM
He sounds a laugh a minute!
Mike
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Diasi on March 06, 2022, 03:22:18 PM
Quote from: Cassandra on March 06, 2022, 02:42:42 PM
I completely agree. "Nett zero" is like everlasting mortality, it sounds too good to be true - because it is.

Over here (North East Michigan) I'm paying (updated) the equivalent of 0.68 p per therm for gas and 12.21p for electricity. Some States are also as much as 25% cheaper due to distribution costs and multiplicity of supply sources. Standing charges don't exist.

Former Vice President and 'New World Order' fanatic 'John Kerry' says we are 'missing' climate change relevance by concentrating on the deflection of the Ukrainian conflict! Still at least he admits we should avoid a nuclear whizz-bang, as it would melt the icecaps. Its good to know he keeps a sense of proportion.

I agree.

Objectives need to change in line with the prevailing circumstances.

When I was a manager in the Dept I had a notice on my office wall that read 'It's difficult to remain with the original ojective, which is to drain the swamp, when you're up to your arse in alligators.'

The nett zero green levys & VAT on energy prices being just two of the alligators.

Although I'll be ok with the various cost of living increases, I despair for a lot of people.

As regards the standing charges there seems to be nothing to stop the energy suppliers increasing them to compensate for any reduction in usage.

Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Michael Rolls on March 06, 2022, 03:23:23 PM
I had that same quote on my wall!
Mike
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Diasi on March 06, 2022, 03:25:40 PM
Quote from: Michael Rolls on March 06, 2022, 03:23:23 PM
I had that same quote on my wall!
Mike

Lol  :grin:

I had another that said' You may not always agree with my decision, but remember, I'm in here & you're out there'.

Lol  :grin:
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Diasi on March 06, 2022, 03:29:21 PM
Oooh! I also had a mug with the inscription 'Another Shitty Day in Paradise' which seemed to capture 100% of the Regional Director's attention when he visited.
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: zoony on March 06, 2022, 03:45:00 PM
I gave my GP a mug for his desk which said: "Please don't confuse your Google search with my degree in medicine".
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Cassandra on March 06, 2022, 03:57:51 PM
Quote from: Diasi on March 06, 2022, 03:22:18 PM
I agree.

Objectives need to change in line with the prevailing circumstances.


So true, today's social/media world is philosophically discursive. Knowledge should be influence by the reason of argument, rather than intuitive ideology. Very often in my life 'The Case was Altered' by the admission of fresh evidence and all involved were then committed to re-think continuation; as factually established reality, devoid of prejudice compelled a different route to decision.

Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: klondike on March 09, 2022, 12:39:10 PM
Octopus who I was passed to when Avro went bust include this in their email

Today, we're introducing a temporary Loyal Octopus support to help customers like you keep your bills as low as possible in this difficult time. The reward automatically reduces your electricity charges by £48 per year compared to our standard tariff (that's £50 below the price cap).

Presumably to discourage switching.

The complete tariff also shows a daily standing charge of close to 50p in some places.
(https://i.postimg.cc/prC6nqXx/octopus.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Diasi on March 09, 2022, 04:12:21 PM
But it does emphasis the electricity & gas (although gas has at least got an equal standing charge) pricing scam as each region charges different prices.

We're on a fixed price tariff until the 31st May, by which time I'll have switched off our central heating function until the beginning of November.
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Diasi on March 10, 2022, 10:06:22 AM
Our energy supplier, Shell, is still selling it's electricity as 100% renewable 100% of the time of the time, which means that we don't expect any of it to be generated by non-renewable means & therefore we don't expect to see an increase in our electricity unit charges.

"100% renewable electricity, 100% of the time
Cleaner energy is more important than ever. That's why all our electricity is 100% renewable, as standard."
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Diasi on March 10, 2022, 10:19:16 AM
Shell has explained the standing charge increase & I can't see how an increase of 39% to transport the gas & electricity to users can be justified.

The rest of the increased charge is for the baling out of the debts left by people's energy suppliers who have gone bust.

"A standing charge is a fixed daily amount that's applied to your bill. The charge is based on the costs suppliers pay for providing your home with energy. It includes the operating and network costs we have to pay the companies who own the wires and pipes that carry your energy. This year their charges have increased by 39%.

The standing charge also includes a levy of £68 per household per year. This amount is set by Ofgem, the UK's energy regulator, to recover costs associated with the collapse of 29 energy suppliers this past year. This is known as the Supplier of Last Resort levy."
Title: Re: Electricity & Gas
Post by: Diasi on April 21, 2022, 10:48:47 AM
We've just had our long awaited email from Shell Energy.

After your fixed term tariff ends in June, you'll be moved to the Shell Flexible 7 tariff with the prices as follows.

Flexible 7 is our cheapest available tariff. Our flexible tariff prices are based on a unit rate of 27.358p per kWh for electricity and 7.280p per kWh for gas, and a standing charge of 48.52p per day for electricity and 27.22p for gas.


Our standing charges have increased from £8 per month to £23 per month & the kWh prices have virtually doubled.

Our present electricity bill is £81 per month & it will increase to £137 per month if Shell apply the estimated annual cost of £ 1649.

P.S. Yes, £137 isn't double £81 but it's based on our present usage annual consumption prediction.

If this was applied to our current tariff the £81 would be around £65 as we've drastically cut down on the central heating over the past two months.
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Cassandra on April 21, 2022, 04:04:14 PM
I thought the 'capped rates' were 0.7p Kwh on Gas and 0.28p Kwh on Electricity until October? With standing charge fees at 27p and 45p a day respectively?

I'm on Zoom with an old pal who lives in Sth Yorkshire and at 84, is thoroughly confused with it all? He sent me the latest Govt capped figures, as above until October. So are OFT allowing Octopus to charge over these numbers as per klon's attachment?
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Diasi on April 21, 2022, 04:26:24 PM
Quote from: Cassandra on April 21, 2022, 04:04:14 PM
I thought the 'capped rates' were 0.7p Kwh on Gas and 0.28p Kwh on Electricity until October? With standing charge fees at 27p and 45p a day respectively?

I'm on Zoom with an old pal who lives in Sth Yorkshire and at 84, is thoroughly confused with it all? He sent me the latest Govt capped figures, as above until October. So are OFT allowing Octopus to charge over these numbers as per klon's attachment?

Hi Cassandra,

We were with Octopus before we switched to Shell Energy so I called them today for a quote & the prices are virtually the same.

Before   After
Tariff details      
Name   iChoosr Collective Octopus 12M Fixed   Flexible Octopus
Tariff code   ICHOOSR-FIX-12M-20-02-12   VAR-22-04-02
      
Electricity charges      
Unit rate   13.02 p per kWh   27.35 p per kWh
Standing charge   23.55 p per day   48.26 p per day
      
Gas charges      
Unit rate   2.27 p per kWh   7.28 p per kWh
Standing charge   17.85 p per day   27.22 p per day
      
Costs      
Estimated annual cost   £754.33   £1728.55
All prices include VAT.

The above estimated annual costs are calculated using annual consumption
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: klondike on April 21, 2022, 04:28:48 PM
Here is the ofgem info

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/check-if-energy-price-cap-affects-you


Current price cap period (1 April - 30 September 2022)

Electric £0.28 per kWh Daily standing charge: £0.45
Gas £0.07 per kWh Daily standing charge: £0.27

Earlier though it says
Does the price cap affect me?
It won't apply if you:

have chosen a standard variable green energy tariff Ofgem has exempted from the cap.


Now I didn't chose anything. My provider went bust and I was switched to Octopus and have had no input at all into what tariff I am on.

I suspect though that is one of the excluded green tariffs and the gits are charging over the cap for gas.
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Diasi on April 21, 2022, 04:42:35 PM
Quote from: klondike on April 21, 2022, 04:28:48 PM
Here is the ofgem info

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/check-if-energy-price-cap-affects-you

Current price cap period (1 April - 30 September 2022)

Electric £0.28 per kWh Daily standing charge: £0.45
Gas £0.07 per kWh Daily standing charge: £0.27

Earlier though it says
Does the price cap affect me?
It won't apply if you:

have chosen a standard variable green energy tariff Ofgem has exempted from the cap.


Now I didn't chose anything. My provider went bust and I was switched to Octopus and have had no input at all into what tariff I am on.

I suspect though that is one of the excluded green tariffs and the gits are charging over the cap for gas.

Shell Energy's sales pitch is that their electricity is sold as 100% renewable 100% of the time so I assume that it's classed as green & therefore evades the OFGEM cap.

It's the fact that their electricty cannot have increased in production cost if it's all renewable all of the time.

If some of their electricity is supplied from non-renewable sources I would argue that their sales pitch is fraudulent.
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: klondike on April 21, 2022, 04:44:06 PM
Quite correct. Good luck on successfully suing them though.
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Cassandra on April 21, 2022, 04:45:25 PM
Quote from: Diasi on April 21, 2022, 04:26:24 PM
Hi Cassandra,

We were with Octopus before we switched to Shell Energy so I called them today for a quote & the prices are virtually the same.

Before   After
Tariff details      
Name   iChoosr Collective Octopus 12M Fixed   Flexible Octopus
Tariff code   ICHOOSR-FIX-12M-20-02-12   VAR-22-04-02
      
Electricity charges      
Unit rate   13.02 p per kWh   27.35 p per kWh
Standing charge   23.55 p per day   48.26 p per day
      
Gas charges      
Unit rate   2.27 p per kWh   7.28 p per kWh
Standing charge   17.85 p per day   27.22 p per day
      
Costs      
Estimated annual cost   £754.33   £1728.55
All prices include VAT.

The above estimated annual costs are calculated using annual consumption

Hi there Diasi,

Thank you for helping out, really much appreciated. My friend is with Octopus too and his increases from his previous fixed deal are staggering.

For example his last bill (March) was fixed at 2.7p per kwh for gas and 15.7p for electricity. Standing charges were  24.84 and 25.72 daily, respectively for gas and electricity.

It's strange ins't it that they are quoting gas say at .28p per Kwh above the CAP on gas at 7p per KwH? Worth a challenge I would think?

Appears to be a blatant disregard for the OFT's figures?

The numbers are completely beyond anything being charged out here as well, but we don't have loopy Green Taxes here either at present, even with an amazing set of idiots running the place!
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: klondike on April 21, 2022, 04:47:25 PM
A challenge will get nowhere for the reason I pointed out. Some tariffs are exempt from the cap.
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Diasi on April 21, 2022, 04:53:32 PM
Quote from: Cassandra on April 21, 2022, 04:45:25 PM
Hi there Diasi,

Thank you for helping out, really much appreciated. My friend is with Octopus too and his increases from his previous fixed deal are staggering.

For example his last bill (March) was fixed at 2.7p per kwh for gas and 15.7p for electricity. Standing charges were  24.84 and 25.72 daily, respectively for gas and electricity.

It's strange ins't it that they are quoting gas say at .28p per Kwh above the CAP on gas at 7p per KwH? Worth a challenge I would think?

Appears to be a blatant disregard for the OFT's figures?

The numbers are completely beyond anything being charged out here as well, but we don't have loopy Green Taxes here either at present, even with an amazing set of idiots running the place!

Our cheapest fixed deal quote from Octopus Energy was £2,416.77 per year.
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Cassandra on April 21, 2022, 05:02:58 PM
Quote from: klondike on April 21, 2022, 04:47:25 PM
A challenge will get nowhere for the reason I pointed out. Some tariffs are exempt from the cap.


What may be the argument is that they are good little greens so you are paying more and they don't make nasty stuff that upsets Mrs Johnsons new wallpaper :shocked:

Also the Vat may be inclusive I feel at 7.28p from Octopus and pre VAT OFT's 7.00p? In that way they are below the cap by 0.07p per Kwh (i.e 5% of 7 = 0.35p)?

The saying about eyes in the back of your head rings true though somehow and in all fairness to the energy co's they are really merely brokers. The 'Vertically Integrated, Oligopolist primary producers upstream, like Big Oil etc are those who need capping! But thats been going on since 1966 and their too powerful to allow legislation to muck up their little game on internal transfer pricing!

I think whatever happens he's best staying on the capped listing at the moment. They (Octopus) are quoting unbelievable prices for a fixed price 12 month contract!
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: klondike on April 21, 2022, 05:14:45 PM
We have all been stitched up I'm afraid. Ofgem have the responsibility for setting the caps and have decided to allow some green tariffs to be exempt. I have no idea how they justify that and even less faith that it could be challenged without huge legal costs.

Now in theory I could switch to a non green tariff and make a pretty marginal saving. In practice I doubt any of the energy companies are accepting new customers on those tariffs. Fixed rate ones are at eye watering prices. My fear is that those eye watering prices may come to be seen as bargain basement. I rather doubt it though so I'll just sulk.
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Cassandra on April 21, 2022, 05:38:43 PM
Quote from: klondike on April 21, 2022, 05:14:45 PM
We have all been stitched up I'm afraid. Ofgem have the responsibility for setting the caps and have decided to allow some green tariffs to be exempt. I have no idea how they justify that and even less faith that it could be challenged without huge legal costs.

Now in theory I could switch to a non green tariff and make a pretty marginal saving. In practice I doubt as my of the energy companies are accepting new customers on those tariffs. Fixed rate ones are at eye watering prices. My fear is that those eye watering prices may come to be seen as bargain basement. I rather doubt it though so I'll just sulk.

They can be challenged for little by perservering with the Freedom of Information Act. I tried for nearly two years about Covid Stats and eventually the ONS coughed revealing that 17,500 people died from Covid as against those who died with it which they headlined at 165,000 cases. However that was a matter of statistical presentation and a difficult tort to argue and very complicated to incorporate or indeed dis-include in any multi-levelled class type action. Also it took me and many others until February this year before they replied and added they had no figures post September '21, even though Whitty and the cuckoos kept sprouting their inflatedly incorrect 'project fear' alternatives until just a few months ago.

However the whole reason for 'green grow the rushes grow' prices only, is to ensure that by by their persistence, the likes of 'Dave' Camerson's father in law gets his grand a day rent receivables from us for each one of the hideous and inefficient Windmills he allows to be erected on his rolloing acres. It certainly needs challenging. The 'Johnson' administration is well supplied with those whose lifetime role's have been in the black arts of deception and terminological inexactitudes ...

Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: klondike on April 21, 2022, 06:04:15 PM
Quote from: Cassandra on April 21, 2022, 05:38:43 PMI tried for nearly two years about Covid Stats and eventually the ONS coughed revealing that 17,500 people died from Covid as against those who died with it which they headlined at 165,000 cases.
Yes I twigged that we were being lead up the path on COVID and wrote a few scripts to collect the publicly available NHS and ONS stats. It was soon apparent that they did not in any way match the past BS predictions. Nobody will ever be held to account for that despite it leaving public debts which will not be paid off for generations.
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Michael Rolls on April 21, 2022, 06:29:53 PM
electricity costs do seem to be a rip-off, especially the increase in the standing charge. This coming year, for the first time in my life, my electricity bill will be more than I spend on food and drink
Mike
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: klondike on April 21, 2022, 09:20:38 PM
I imagine the loss incurred by bust companies is the reason for a lot of the increase. Putting it on the standing charge probably compensates for shortfall from people turning stuff off.

There can't be huge profits in it because none of them seem to be looking to increase their customer base by offering good switch deals.

Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Diasi on April 22, 2022, 09:00:01 AM
Quote from: klondike on April 21, 2022, 09:20:38 PM
I imagine the loss incurred by bust companies is the reason for a lot of the increase. Putting it on the standing charge probably compensates for shortfall from people turning stuff off.


Which is exactly what I've been saying.

If people continue to use less & less gas & electricity, the standing charge will continue to rise proportionally.

Shell Energy's explanation for the rise does include the amount needed to bale out the accounts of those whose energy suppliers went bust.

This has shown the energy supply industry for the scam that it is, with OFGEM being a waste of money since they should restrict energy costs to the actual cost of production & renewable energy doesn't vary in production cost to any great extent.
Title: Re: Electricity
Post by: Michael Rolls on April 22, 2022, 09:20:47 AM
Couldn't agree more!!