Scotland seems to like big state. Some settle for SNP big state but even that isn't big enough for some.

What did Labour do to lose all those seats in Scotland? Was it just that leaving GB (but not the EU) tipped things to the SNP.

They didn't stress the Scottishness enough. It's the Braveheart emotions for some.  There are some Scots who prefer immigrants from anywhere over the English.  The 'Anyone but England' mentality as we hear in football.

Quote from: Raven on June 19, 2023, 05:51:45 AMJune 19, 2023, 05:59:28 AM
I think it's a bit like you ones with the voting down south, you want change but are scared to vote for it. So we always end up with either tory or Labour in power.
By the By..........I voted to leave the EU.

I, for one, am not scared of voting for Reform.

If the majority vote is for Labour, as many suspect it will be, they'll soon realise their mistake...
or they probably won't, as they're obviously not very forward-looking.

As for the EU, although it is unlikely, I suspect that if we have another referendum I should not be surprised if the majority vote for us to hand our country over to a foreign power again.  It really matters little, as this country will eventually become the Islamic Republic of Britain anyway.

Quote from: morty on June 18, 2023, 10:50:52 PMI have to say I was a tad amazed myself ... I never had her down as sneaky. She always came across as very sincere and genuine (unlike other renowned sleaze bags south of the Border) .. a right little firebrand whether you liked her politics or not.

All the successful Ponzi Scheme fraudsters come across as sincere & genuine too.

If they looked like dodgy shysters no one would invest in their schemes.

Maybe too cynical but it seems to me the only party the Civil Service will ' service' is the Labour Party.  If, just if Reform got in (which they won't) the Civil Service would shut up shop to their ideas.

Quote from: Alex on June 19, 2023, 11:38:02 AMMaybe too cynical but it seems to me the only party the Civil Service will ' service' is the Labour Party.  If, just if Reform got in (which they won't) the Civil Service would shut up shop to their ideas.

Unfortunately I think you're right.

Today's Civil Service is an utter disgrace.

Perhaps Reform would have the balls to sack those that refuse to do their jobs. How many would it take to lose their pension rights before they decided maybe refusing wasn't so good an idea after all. 

As you say though we won't be finding out any time soon as our downward decline with two possible useless governments is assured.

Why is everyone so scared to vote for change, when all they ever do is grouse about both Tory n Labour?
If you don't vote for change then you won't get it, then IMO, you can't complain. 

Quote from: Diasi on June 19, 2023, 11:40:49 AMUnfortunately I think you're right.

Today's Civil Service is an utter disgrace.

Very true.  They think they run the country now, and they probably do, but that is because we have no strong ministers in government.  It appears to be exactly like that excellent comedy, 'Yes Minister'.

If we should ever be lucky enough to elect a strong government which genuinely wants to rescue us, and our country, they could indeed turn around and bite the Civil Service on their backsides.  Something which has been wanting in this country for decades.

Quote from: Raven on June 19, 2023, 12:57:20 PMWhy is everyone so scared to vote for change, when all they ever do is grouse about both Tory n Labour?
If you don't vote for change then you won't get it, then IMO, you can't complain. 

Nobody votes for either party. They just vote against the other bunch of clowns.

I'll vote Reform. The only possible result of that will be a marginally increased chance that the candidate will retain their deposit but I'm not holding my breath on that.

Two more for Reform here, even though this is the Socialist Republic of South Yorkshire!

Quote from: GrannyMac on June 19, 2023, 01:22:13 PMTwo more for Reform here, even though this is the Socialist Republic of South Yorkshire!

And me, even though this is the wrong side of the Pennines!

I read somewhere that Richard Tice said there would be a Reform candidate in every constituency at the GE

Yes he did. I made a couple of donations to the Brexit party and get Reform emails. I've not attended any events or made more contributions but might if is seems doing either will have any impact on UK politics. As it stands they'll get my vote but that is probably all.

I was a conservative party member hoping to vote for a successor to May but gave up on them before her downfall.

Quote from: klondike on June 19, 2023, 03:14:54 PMYes he did. I made a couple of donations to the Brexit party and get Reform emails. I've not attended any events or made more contributions but might if is seems doing either will have any impact on UK politics. As it stands they'll get my vote but that is probably all.

I was a conservative party member hoping to vote for a successor to May but gave up on them before her downfall.

I feel the same, but I have never regarded Treason May as any benefit to this country.
Cameron, May, Boris, none of them have done very much for this country, I'm afraid.  In fact, I don't rate any of them since Maggie Thatcher, who really did lead this country as a strong PM.