Have you read about Maggie ? The V & A museum has placed her alongside Hitler, Bin Laden and other "villains" in an exhibition. Apparently the place is run by a former Labour MP one Tristram Hunt, I can honestly say I've never heard of any Labour supporters called 'Tristram '. :grin: :grin: :grin:
Anyway, love her or loathe her, she doesn't deserve to be alongside mass murderers. Perhaps there should be a rethink on the 60 odd million £s the V & A receives from Government ?
Crabby would probably give you an argument on that one :grin:
I think it's pretty disgraceful. She was divisive but she pulled us out of being the basket case we had become. It wasn't painless though and she has many detractors.
Quote from: Alex on March 18, 2024, 01:29:52 PMHave you read about Maggie ? The V & A museum has placed her alongside Hitler, Bin Laden and other "villains" in an exhibition. Apparently the place is run by a former Labour MP
Completely self-explanatory.
This is left-wing Londonistan, remember.
They hate Maggie, probably because she did so much to improve the country in the face of all the problems created over the years by Labour.
I'm afraid that many people today seem to look toward a new Labour government to lift us out of all the mess we are now in!
All will become clear in a few years' time, but even then those same people will still support that party.
We desperately need a new 'Maggie', but that will not come from the Conservative party.
Unfortunately the men running this country do not have the balls that Maggie had..
Unfortunately the men running ruining this country do not have the balls that Maggie had..
There. Fixed that for you.
She did a lot for the UK. The left still trot out one line from an interview she gave to Women's Own, 'There is no such thing as society'. Put in context I agree with what she said! I believe being as self reliant as possible is why I've nearly always voted Conservative.
https://newlearningonline.com/new-learning/chapter-4/neoliberalism-more-recent-times/margaret-thatcher-theres-no-such-thing-as-society
Tristram Julian William Hunt was educated at University College School, an all-boys' private school in Hampstead, north London.
Tristram Julian William Hunt was born in 1974 and that explains quite a lot. His father was a labour councillor and he was a labour MP himself and yet he seems to have very little in common with ordinary working people. A bit like his party leaders.
Quote from: Ashy on March 18, 2024, 07:01:57 PMTristram Julian William Hunt was born in 1974 and that explains quite a lot. His father was a labour councillor and he was a labour MP himself and yet he seems to have very little in common with ordinary working people. A bit like his party leaders.
That's probably why Labour lost a lot of support in the 'red wall' areas.
I think it's a myth that Labour represents the working class people.
More left wing, woke garbage!
Who names their child Tristram ?
There are no socialist MPs, even Rayner became capitalist as soon as she 'flipped' her ex-council house & made £48,000.
Love her or loathe her - Maggie was the best Prime Minister this country has had in eons. She believed in the good of the country, not her own aggrandisement. She came from a relatively humble background, and knew the meaning of hard work. If she made mistakes - she acknowledged them and put them right. If she promised to do something - she did it. Above all - she was a leader.
Can this be said about any of the pathetic lot around today?
Quote from: Silver Tabby on March 19, 2024, 08:12:14 AMLove her or loathe her - Maggie was the best Prime Minister this country has had in eons. She believed in the good of the country, not her own aggrandisement. She came from a relatively humble background, and knew the meaning of hard work. If she made mistakes - she acknowledged them and put them right. If she promised to do something - she did it. Above all - she was a leader.
Can this be said about any of the pathetic lot around today?
She was indeed, and as you say she was from a normal working-class background.
When you hear the ex-miners complaining about her, I think they should have another look at the figures. Harold Wilson closed more pits than Maggie, but they seem to forget about him for some reason.
Quote from: JBR on March 18, 2024, 07:19:35 PMThat's probably why Labour lost a lot of support in the 'red wall' areas.
I think it's a myth that Labour represents the working class people.
There's something in that. How did this man ever purport to represent Stoke on Trent as a labour MP? There are two things wrong with our present system, career politicians and safe seats. Term limits may be the answer, but that would inhibit the few worthy politicians.
Margaret Thatcher working class? I would say middle class. Her father was a successful shopkeeper at a time when shopkeepers were respectable. A graduate, far less common then, her careers included industrial chemist, teacher, and lawyer, before she entered politics. Middle class.
Quote from: JBR on March 19, 2024, 10:02:55 AMShe was indeed, and as you say she was from a normal working-class background.
When you hear the ex-miners complaining about her, I think they should have another look at the figures. Harold Wilson closed more pits than Maggie, but they seem to forget about him for some reason.
If you're particularly at a loose end, feel free to read this..
http://www.healeyhero.co.uk/rescue/individual/Bob_Bradley/PM-Closures.html
Quote from: dextrous63 on March 19, 2024, 10:14:24 AMIf you're particularly at a loose end, feel free to read this..
http://www.healeyhero.co.uk/rescue/individual/Bob_Bradley/PM-Closures.html
Yes, in short:
Wilson = 253 pits closed
Thatcher = 115 pits closed
yet they always complain about Thatcher. I think that shows some political bias!
March 19, 2024, 10:32:20 AMQuote from: Ashy on March 19, 2024, 10:06:35 AMThere's something in that. How did this man ever purport to represent Stoke on Trent as a labour MP? There are two things wrong with our present system, career politicians and safe seats. Term limits may be the answer, but that would inhibit the few worthy politicians.
Margaret Thatcher working class? I would say middle class. Her father was a successful shopkeeper at a time when shopkeepers were respectable. A graduate, far less common then, her careers included industrial chemist, teacher, and lawyer, before she entered politics. Middle class.
My dad had an off-licence shop. So we were middle class?
I'm also a graduate.
Nevertheless, I've always felt myself to be working class.
We probably won't agree on what constitutes working class. In my definition of working class the person does not own the means of production or distribution and has to live by the sale of his labour. Over time, grey areas have developed.
Quote from: Ashy on March 19, 2024, 11:40:52 AMWe probably won't agree on what constitutes working class. In my definition of working class the person does not own the means of production or distribution and has to live by the sale of his labour. Over time, grey areas have developed.
So that makes all lorry drivers middle class!
'The working classes' !!
People who only get paid when they do the work .
People who can not shoot off on holiday whenever they feel like it..
Quote from: Scrumpy on March 20, 2024, 08:18:45 AM'The working classes' !!
People who only get paid when they do the work .
People who can not shoot off on holiday whenever they feel like it..
Quite apart from one-upmanship, I'm sure that most people are working class.
I certainly am.
Quote from: JBR on March 20, 2024, 10:31:35 AMQuite apart from one-upmanship, I'm sure that most people are working class.
I certainly am.
Me too, & so was Hyacinth Bucket. Lol :grin:
What interesting discussion.
Thatcher - the iron lady - really saved the miserable UK economy at that time, however, don't forget that it was due to the support of the EU (special conditions and discounts granted) that the British economy recovered and flourished.
One of my pupils dealt intensively with Margret Thatcher, her life, her achievements etc. and i am not sure whether she would have been so happy about your Brexit.
Quote from: ansu on March 20, 2024, 11:01:34 AMWhat interesting discussion.
Thatcher - the iron lady - really saved the miserable UK economy at that time, however, don't forget that it was due to the support of the EU (special conditions and discounts granted) that the British economy recovered and flourished.
One of my pupils dealt intensively with Margret Thatcher, her life, her achievements etc. and i am not sure whether she would have been so happy about your Brexit.
I don't know how Maggie would have felt personally about Brexit, but it was a democratic decision and I'm sure she would have accepted that.
My personal opinion is that she was our best PM in modern times and this is reflected in how the country progressed throughout her time as PM.
Quote from: ansu on March 20, 2024, 11:01:34 AMWhat interesting discussion.
don't forget that it was due to the support of the EU (special conditions and discounts granted) that the British economy recovered and flourished.
We had support of course we did, but don't forget we joined the EEC not the EU and as you know what the EEC became was totally different from what we joined. Thatcher would not have been happy with the Brexit we got, hopeless negotiations, but she would have been happy with the fact we left.
Quote from: Alex on March 20, 2024, 12:59:08 PMWe had support of course we did, but don't forget we joined the EEC not the EU and as you know what the EEC became was totally different from what we joined. Thatcher would not have been happy with the Brexit we got, hopeless negotiations, but she would have been happy with the fact we left.
Exactly. The EU was formed by stealth.
The EEC was an organisation to do with trade and business. It was a benefit to us because it eased free trade between member countries.
The EU is an organisation of political control, and was formed in 1993 three years after Maggie was stabbed in the back and John Major took over.
Four years later, the infamous B Liar took over and sold the country down the Swanee.
Quote from: ansu on March 20, 2024, 11:01:34 AMhowever, don't forget that it was due to the support of the EU (special conditions and discounts granted)
If we'd left then or hadn't joined we'd have had a 100% discount.
The soporific socialist pit that is the EU encourages dumbed down wet politicians. Huge pay and no responsibility. I blame this approach totally for the spongers we have in the UK Parliament now. Over the decades since the camp organ grinder conned us into joining, the standard of MP's has declined to the objects of disdain that we now have. Most of the faceless 'one nation' Tories and geening prats like Labours Jonathan Ashworth et al, don't know what it is to make a decision. Their avuncular controller look alikes in Brussels have been telling them what to do and say for so long that it amazes me they even know what to do on the toilet pan without an EU directive ...
Quote from: Cassandra on March 20, 2024, 06:35:54 PMit amazes me they even know what to do on the toilet pan without an EU directive ...
On form as always Cass :grin:
Quote from: Cassandra on March 20, 2024, 06:35:54 PMThe soporific socialist pit that is the EU encourages dumbed down wet politicians. Huge pay and no responsibility. I blame this approach totally for the spongers we have in the UK Parliament now. Over the decades since the camp organ grinder conned us into joining, the standard of MP's has declined to the objects of disdain that we now have. Most of the faceless 'one nation' Tories and geening prats like Labours Jonathan Ashworth et al, don't know what it is to make a decision. Their avuncular controller look alikes in Brussels have been telling them what to do and say for so long that it amazes me they even know what to do on the toilet pan without an EU directive ...
:grin: :grin: :grin:
:upvote: :grin: :grin: :grin:
Quote from: Cassandra on March 20, 2024, 06:35:54 PMThe soporific socialist pit that is the EU encourages dumbed down wet politicians. Huge pay and no responsibility. I blame this approach totally for the spongers we have in the UK Parliament now.
Something I have been saying for years now, though admittedly not quite as well put!
I am sure that it is the real case that those who persuaded us to join the EU, or at least to stay after its 'transformation', were the ones who were going to benefit from it: politicians. Same pay; less work.
Of course, now that we have 'left', if you want to call it leaving, we are now free to run our country as we like and for our own benefit, except...
well, we still seem to be working under what were their rules, though of course they call them 'our' rules now!
As you want to continue doing business with the EU countries, your goods have to meet the EU requirements and as far as I know the number of migrants hasn't reduced considerably since the Brexit. So what are the advtanges of the Brexit - no idea, maybe I am too daft.
Erasmus, for instance was a super initiative for your and our students to exchange views and to get to know each other better. I think, I already told you my granddaughter wanted to study in the UK, but compared to other countries the UK university fees are astronomically high, so she decided in favour of the Netherlands.
Quote from: ansu on March 22, 2024, 10:10:51 AMAs you want to continue doing business with the EU countries, your goods have to meet the EU requirements and as far as I know the number of migrants hasn't reduced considerably since the Brexit. So what are the advtanges of the Brexit - no idea, maybe I am too daft.
It's perfectly simple.
We British prefer to be governed by a group of people we have directly elected.
EU countries may have their own local parliaments, I don't know, but the rules come down from the EU parliament which is led by the EU Commission, which is not elected by the people.
It's a matter of democracy, something we fought for many years ago, and something I think you also used to have... sometimes!
Quote from: ansu on March 22, 2024, 10:10:51 AMAs you want to continue doing business with the EU countries, your goods have to meet the EU requirements and as far as I know the number of migrants hasn't reduced considerably since the Brexit. So what are the advtanges of the Brexit - no idea, maybe I am too daft.
Erasmus, for instance was a super initiative for your and our students to exchange views and to get to know each other better. I think, I already told you my granddaughter wanted to study in the UK, but compared to other countries the UK university fees are astronomically high, so she decided in favour of the Netherlands.
Our goods have to meet the requirements of any country to which we export, including the EU.
If the EU only allows vacuum that can't suck a milkshake then we'll have to export vacuum cleaners that can't suck a milkshake to them.
It doesn't mean that we should have to have the same.
Quote from: Diasi on March 22, 2024, 11:24:17 AMOur goods have to meet the requirements of any country to which we export, including the EU.
If the EU only allows vacuum that can't suck a milkshake then we'll have to export vacuum cleaners that can't suck a milkshake to them.
It doesn't mean that we should have to have the same.
I'm sure that the EU countries are happy to have such things, strong vacuum cleaners for example, just as long as they make them themselves.
I have come to realise that they put in place rules - flexible rules! - which work in their favour and not ours, simply because we had the temerity to leave their 'club'!
That suits me, especially as I read recently that we are to be involved in the production of 'AUKUS' nuclear submarines for Australia (and ourselves); something beyond anything the EU is capable of producing for itself.
I hope that this is a sign of how we can progress beyond what the EU can manage, despite their working against us.
I should add that I believe there are some individual countries within the EU who have no hatred for us, and likewise us for them, or I sincerely hope so. If the EU should collapse in the near future, which I hope, perhaps we can join those countries in a productive alliance, like the EEC: business rather than political control.
Here's a thought. As most immigrants who want to claim asylum arrive somewhere in mainland Europe, the European parliament could devise a dispersal plan. Instead of Germany, Italy and France (then onward to UK) taking the bulk, why not send them to Slovakia, Romania and other parts of Eastern Europe?
If they then achieved citizenship, they'd be free to move around the EU, but they'd be properly documented.
From what I can make out the French treat them like shit so the only draw factor there is the onward trip across the channel. If the French really pulled their finger out in stopping that instead of escorting them our way once launched it would remove the draw of France.
I think the EU already have a migrant sharing scheme. Orban for one has given it the two finger salute. IMO Merkle is the most guilty with her all welcome stance earlier.
https://www.politico.eu/article/eus-top-court-slashes-hungarian-law-outsource-aslyum-applications/
Quote from: klondike on March 24, 2024, 10:45:34 AMFrom what I can make out the French treat them like shit so the only draw factor there is the onward trip across the channel. If the French really pulled their finger out in stopping that instead of escorting them our way once launched it would remove the draw of France.
I think the EU already have a migrant sharing scheme. Orban for one has given it the two finger salute. IMO Merkle is the most guilty with her all welcome stance earlier.
https://www.politico.eu/article/eus-top-court-slashes-hungarian-law-outsource-aslyum-applications/
Absolutely.
The Frogs are happy to let them in, but give them nowt and thus encourage them to set sail for Treasure Island.
The fact that they continue to come here is entirely our own fault...
though by that I mean the Lords, the Church, the Civil Service, and all general do-gooders.
The majority of British people do not want them, but what can we do? Only vote!
Except that the shower you list are there without the public voting for them and can't be voted out.
Quote from: klondike on March 24, 2024, 01:35:59 PMExcept that the shower you list are there without the public voting for them and can't be voted out.
Absolutely.
However, all is not lost.
There have been suggestions that, with the right party in government, it is possible that the Lords could be closed down, or at least adapted so as to have no control over the elected government.
It should be even easier for a good government to take control of the Civil Service which has now, somehow, managed to make itself untouchable.
The Church is already making itself less interesting to more and more British people, led by Welby, though seems now to be very attractive to new immigrants to this country for some inexplicable reason.
Quote from: klondike on March 24, 2024, 10:45:34 AMFrom what I can make out the French treat them like shit so the only draw factor there is the onward trip across the channel. If the French really pulled their finger out in stopping that instead of escorting them our way once launched it would remove the draw of France.
I think the EU already have a migrant sharing scheme. Orban for one has given it the two finger salute. IMO Merkle is the most guilty with her all welcome stance earlier.
https://www.politico.eu/article/eus-top-court-slashes-hungarian-law-outsource-aslyum-applications/
I call my little Dog 'Merkle' (Biewer Terrier) as an alternative
monicker to her given name of 'Holly' upon adoption. Two reasons;
1) She is an unelected Teutonic Mistress of the World, to all other creatures she dominates and co-habits with, but also stupidly
2) She lets everyone in ...
Germany has produced some right 'wackadoos' over the years. Their more recent contributions to '
Global' instability, include the said 'Mutter Merkle' and the ongoing freak creep that is Klaus Schwab. The creator of the WEF, the Davos based dystopian elite (mission statement
" you vill own nuthzink, unt vant nuthzink) should surely qualify for inclusion to the V&A Museum's recent chamber of horrors.
Seeing as they've already reserved Adolf his place.
Quote from: Cassandra on March 24, 2024, 08:43:15 PMGermany has produced some right 'wackadoos' over the years. Their more recent contributions to 'Global' instability, include the said 'Mutter Merkle' and the ongoing freak creep that is Klaus Schwab. The creator of the WEF, the Davos based dystopian elite (mission statement " you vill own nuthzink, unt vant nuthzink) should surely qualify for inclusion to the V&A Museum's recent chamber of horrors.
How right you are.
Schwab is part of the New World Order, which often gets me dubbed as a conspiracy theorist.
Basically it's a catch-all term for those individuals & organisations who want to control all aspects of everyone's lives & they're doing it by financial manipulation & by destroying the fabric of our societal structure & long-held social values & norms.
Schwab was the founding creator of the 'thing'' on the 24th of January 1971.
A date that will live in infamy
Quote from: Cassandra on March 25, 2024, 03:28:40 PMSchwab was the founding creator of the 'thing'' on the 24th of January 1971.
A date that will live in infamy
For those who don't know anything about him & think that the New World Order is a conspiracy theory myth, I suggest they read about him & his aims.
https://www.weforum.org/about/klaus-schwab/
Never heard of him - seems he isn't very popular in Germany.
As to Merkel and the migrants - I am not happy about what happened in 2015, but I think she didn't have any alternative. The migrants just started walking from the main station in Budapest on the Autobahn to Austria and Germany and nobody could stop them. It's true in the meantime we really have a problem in accomodating them. However, you mustn't forget that we have more than a million refugees from the Ukraine here in Germany, too and I think that the people in former Eastern Germany have some difficulties with foreigners - maybe I am wrong, I don't know. There's still a gap in the mindset.
With regard to the French, it must be said that they always have had enormous problems with migrants from the Maghreb and people from other former colonies, above all in Africa. These people live in so-called bidonvilles without any infrastructure and prospects. Maybe this will change after the Olympic Games, as I read that the Olympic City is close to those bidonvilles and may offer jobs to them.
Quote from: ansu on March 25, 2024, 05:01:32 PMNever heard of him - seems he isn't very popular in Germany.
You must have seen him in films surely..
(https://www.007.info/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/YOLTBlofeld4.jpg)
March 25, 2024, 05:12:10 PMQuote from: ansu on March 25, 2024, 05:01:32 PMI read that the Olympic City is close to those bidonvilles and may offer jobs to them.
I suspect it is more likely that their camps will be trashed and they will be moved on. Doubtless some in dinghies.
Quote from: klondike on March 25, 2024, 05:10:20 PMYou must have seen him in films surely..
(https://www.007.info/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/YOLTBlofeld4.jpg)
Lol :upvote: :grin: :grin: :grin:
Well I suppose we all have role models?
Quote from: Cassandra on March 25, 2024, 07:32:07 PMWell I suppose we all have role models?
:upvote: :grin: :grin: :grin:
And he'll probably achieve more than Adolf could ever have imagined.
I just don't understand how all the so called intelligencia and glitterati can be so motivated by this Bondesque nutter, to the extent that he draws a million $ in a salary and earns Z extra millions from insider share dealing on top.
Ok Trudeau, Macron and the ex bag of teeth from New Zealand Adern, are clearly certifiable on sight, as is the recently iced wee wonkeress from Scotland.
But our own King and the next in line to succeed Klauski, Blair being similarly 'star-spangled' seems worrying to me, there must be more to it ...