Self-driving cars are planned to be on the UK roads during 2025 so the idiots who formulate our laws have been excelling themselves.
The Law Commission has already drawn up proposals for such legislation under which motorists in self-driving cars would not be held legally responsible for accidents.
Drivers – known as "users in charge" of vehicles under the law – could not be prosecuted for careless or dangerous driving, speeding or running a red light when it was in a self-driving mode.
So a user in charge could be sat in their car that's malfunctioned & it's doing 90 mph in a 30 limit & they have no legal duty to try & slow it down & stop the car.
Or the car could be in driver control mode & the driver will claim the car was in user in charge mode whenever they commit a traffic violation.
You couldn't make it up, well not until some morons did.
That will give the 'nutters' something to work on..
Fixing a motor so that it 'Malfunctions' .. when needed to cause problems...
Since it caused offence I've removed my post.
All that's required now is for him to remove the copy that he posted.
Looks like I'll have to take early retirement :cry:
(https://gallery.digitalham.co.uk/images/yogi_driving.jpg)
totally idiotic, but sadly, hardly surprising
Mike
I only just logged in as the Admin and saw a post had been reported. I have removed the quote as the original comment has been removed.
Mark/klondike
What a despicable thing to say!
Doubt I would even get in one, I would be scared stiff, and apart from that I wouldn't trust it.
Very likely there will be far lest accidents with self drive cars. Speed controls and a far faster braking when system when required. Its planned for motorways at the moment.
Nope, still wouldn't trust them. A Death Wish I do not have.
Don't worry you won't have a car by then. Only the elites will have cars.
Yes Ashy I will still have my old Skoda so not for me. Most accident on the motorways are vehicle running into the back of stationary vehicles which catches driver by surprise. This type of accident should be reduced. Self drive vehicles will be quite common in the near future.
Quote from: Ashy on August 19, 2022, 11:31:25 AMDon't worry you won't have a car by then. Only the elites will have cars.
Shhh. State secret.
Hugh, I admire your optimism and I hope you are right.
The thing with most legislation is it gets considered by a plethora of people between being proposed and being enacted, so there's a chance that someone will say, hang on a minute, what if...
Only a chance mind. You see, for example, a car may have automatic transmission but the driver is still responsible if the car does something unexpected, like shooting backwards over the pavement at 30 mph into a shop window.
Quote from: -Oy- on August 19, 2022, 08:43:47 AMWhat a despicable thing to say!
If you say so, you're fully entitled to your opinion.
August 19, 2022, 12:44:52 PMQuote from: hugh on August 19, 2022, 10:09:36 AMVery likely there will be far lest accidents with self drive cars. Speed controls and a far faster braking when system when required. Its planned for motorways at the moment.
Yes, they're safe as houses, except when they're not, but the lucky user in charge won't be facing any penalites when it happens in the UK.
https://bit.ly/3pvPvXs
Unless I have misunderstood, but drivers will still be responsible, and have to be ready to take over if required.
Quote from: Ashy on August 19, 2022, 12:38:46 PMYou see, for example, a car may have automatic transmission but the driver is still responsible if the car does something unexpected, like shooting backwards over the pavement at 30 mph into a shop window.
In truth there is an excellent reason for that. No automatic I've ever driven is capable of moving the gear shift into R and flooring the accelerator all by itself.
I heard these details on the radio only yesterday.
"According to data made public by American safety regulators, automakers recorded from May 2021 to date, roughly 400 crashes involving vehicles with automated driver-assist systems, that included 273 Teslas"
I'm with Raven, I won't be getting in one, I like my foot in charge of the brake :grin:
A good few years ago, I think that it was Mercedes who installed an improved braking system which reduced the distance travelled from brake application to full stop - then they found their cars being back-ended by cars with less efficient brakes. IIRC, at autobahn speeds, following cars were still doing something like 20 mph at impact. This has the makings of similar problems with self drive and driver driven vehicles mixed.
Mike
I think I would feel far safer in a SDC than with quite a few drivers I have shared a car with!
:upvote: :upvote: :upvote:
I remember years back getting a lift to the Aveley parts depot with my manager in his new 3l Capri. He was moaning about a shimmy in the steering at over 100. I wouldn't have particularly minded about the over 100 if we had been more than 100 yards from the end of the M10.
There were a couple of other incidents on the same journey which would make this sound like a Brian post. How my underpants survived I'll never know but I never got a lift with him again.
yes, there are some awful drivers around - which makes me worry even more about SDCs - can they anticipate idiocy?
Mike
Quote from: hugh on August 19, 2022, 02:40:06 PMUnless I have misunderstood, but drivers will still be responsible, and have to be ready to take over if required.
Yes, you have misunderstood.
Quote from: klondike on August 19, 2022, 02:45:57 PMIn truth there is an excellent reason for that. No automatic I've ever driven is capable of moving the gear shift into R and flooring the accelerator all by itself.
No indeed but sometimes the gear shift gets left in reverse whilst manoeuvring.
No different from a manual. If somebody doesn't know what gear they are in then obviously any accident caused by that oversight is considered to be their fault.
Quote from: klondike on August 22, 2022, 03:53:16 PMNo different from a manual. If somebody doesn't know what gear they are in then obviously any accident caused by that oversight is considered to be their fault.
But a manual stalls a lot easier than an automatic plus in a manual you don't often press the wrong pedals.
I'll place a bet that 99% of cars that have shot across a garage forecourt or shot through a shop window have been an automatic.
You're almost certainly correct but the discussion was on who is to blame not whether it's easier to drive off unintentionally with manual or auto and the answer to that is always the driver regardless.
Well, this from a working party of the Law Commission:-
>>>The person in the driving seat of a self-driving car should not be held legally accountable if it crashes, watchdogs have proposed.
A joint report by the Law Commission of England and Wales and the Scottish Law Commission recommended legal reforms that would see driverless car users exempt from prosecution if anything goes wrong with the automation.
This could include causing an accident, speeding, running a red light or other dangerous actions.
Instead, they want the company or software developer that gained authorisation for the technology to be held legally responsible for the driving aspects of automated cars.<<<
Frankly, the whole concept fills me with dread - I think folk are trying to run before they can walk, same as with the push for electric vehicles with an infrastructure totally unprepared to cope.
Mike
Quote from: klondike on August 22, 2022, 06:14:29 PMYou're almost certainly correct but the discussion was on who is to blame not whether it's easier to drive off unintentionally with manual or auto and the answer to that is always the driver regardless.
Well that's correct but my point still remains that it's far easier for a driver to make a mistake in an automatic car than it is in a manual car.
August 23, 2022, 08:56:59 AMQuote from: Michael Rolls on August 23, 2022, 05:13:51 AMWell, this from a working party of the Law Commission:-
>>>The person in the driving seat of a self-driving car should not be held legally accountable if it crashes, watchdogs have proposed.
A joint report by the Law Commission of England and Wales and the Scottish Law Commission recommended legal reforms that would see driverless car users exempt from prosecution if anything goes wrong with the automation.
This could include causing an accident, speeding, running a red light or other dangerous actions.
Instead, they want the company or software developer that gained authorisation for the technology to be held legally responsible for the driving aspects of automated cars.<<<
Frankly, the whole concept fills me with dread - I think folk are trying to run before they can walk, same as with the push for electric vehicles with an infrastructure totally unprepared to cope.
Mike
It'll be interesting watching the police & the courts trying to prosecute the manufacturers for thousands of motoring offences.
It'll also be interesting to see how the insurance works out as the car owner isn't a driver & therefore can never be at fault.
Quote from: Michael Rolls on August 23, 2022, 05:13:51 AMWell, this from a working party of the Law Commission:-
>>>The person in the driving seat of a self-driving car should not be held legally accountable if it crashes, watchdogs have proposed.
A joint report by the Law Commission of England and Wales and the Scottish Law Commission recommended legal reforms that would see driverless car users exempt from prosecution if anything goes wrong with the automation.
This could include causing an accident, speeding, running a red light or other dangerous actions.
Instead, they want the company or software developer that gained authorisation for the technology to be held legally responsible for the driving aspects of automated cars.<<<
Quite correct IMO. If you are a passenger on a bus you are not responsible if there is an accident. That is down to the driver (or third party). The "driver" of an autonomous vehicle is the software and if that is faulty the responsibility lies with the supplier.
This will of course mean we won't be getting autonomous vehicles any time soon if it is adopted. The current sensors and software are simply not up to the task.
Quote from: Diasi on August 23, 2022, 08:46:39 AMWell that's correct but my point still remains that it's far easier for a driver to make a mistake in an automatic car than it is in a manual car.
As I said not in dispute.